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Hello Anyone who can offer advice.

I own a 1997 Taurus LX 24V Duratec 3.0, V6. After a previous garage had reconditioned the heads I find that I have what has been diagnosed as noisy timing chains. I suspect one or two things have happened. Firstly I suspect that since I live in Brazil and expertise or experience with my car is severely limited, in fact zero in my town, that when the tensioners were removed and refitted the correct procedure was not followed and so they are not maintaining the tension in the chains. The car is noisy and is not smooth on tick-over. So I wanted to find out more about the timing chains and also the crank position sensor.

To do this we need to take off the motor front plate which means taking off the pulley with the left hand thread and the crankshaft damper pulley. Having succeeded with the first we are unable to remove the crankshaft damper. It appears to be solid and resistant to any amount of force. I believe this to be a normal right hand thread.

I am wondering if the previous garage used Loctite or something like that when they re-fitted the crankshaft damper. So I have two requests for help. The first one is advice on how to remove the crankshaft damper in view of the above and secondly if Loctite has been used, is there a way to overcome the effects of using Loctite or any other similar product.

A very Frustrated man

Maiki do Brasil
 

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Heat will help with the loctite. Did they resurface the heads?
 

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QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 10 2009, 03:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738501
Heat will help with the loctite. Did they resurface the heads?[/b]
I don´t think so, just replaced the oil seal rings on the valve stems and re-seated the valves. The original problem was leaky oil seals on the valve stems.

We we thought about heat but are worried about the rubber seals in that area.
 

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It doesn't take a lot of heat, nothing like taking rusty parts apart. I would buy a new front seal and put it in anyway if you are taking the chain cover off.
 

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QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 10 2009, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738511
It doesn't take a lot of heat, nothing like taking rusty parts apart. I would buy a new front seal and put it in anyway if you are taking the chain cover off.[/b]
Thanks for the tip. I have another question. To remove the damper we are holding the crankshaft fixed as asvised. Should we be holding the second pulley, the one behind the one with the LH thread?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 10 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738514
Here's the procedure[/b]
Thanks SHOZ123. In fact I already located that file. I must be missing something somewhere, I think. Sorry I have to leave the forum as I have to leave the premises just now, to visit the garage in fact. I will communicate your comments when I go. Will return later. Many thanks.
 

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Hi

I am confused a little by what is said in the file suggested. I have in fact been using it as a guide but I think I have not interpreted it correctly. It says the first thread on the pulley is LH. This is OK, we removed the pulley by LH thread as directed and left the axle screwed in to the damper. It then says the second thread is RH. For us this would then be the thread on the damper we need to undo in order to remove the short axle. My confusion is which is first and which is second. The diagram shows only what I assumed to be the second thread, i.e. the one on the damper. Is this also LH and is therefore the second thread mentioned, the one inside the damper which secures it to the crankshaft? This could be a RH thread, it does not matter as no torque is transmitted through it, unlike the other two.

It would make sense to me if the thread on both ends of this short shaft that holds the pulley and fits into the damper were both left hand and the retainer nut inside the damper RH. Is this correct?

Please can you confirm direction of threads for me?

Thanks
 

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QUOTE (Maiki do Brasil @ Jul 11 2009, 06:23 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738626
Hi

I am confused a little by what is said in the file suggested. I have in fact been using it as a guide but I think I have not interpreted it correctly. It says the first thread on the pulley is LH. This is OK, we removed the pulley by LH thread as directed and left the axle screwed in to the damper. It then says the second thread is RH. For us this would then be the thread on the damper we need to undo in order to remove the short axle. My confusion is which is first and which is second. The diagram shows only what I assumed to be the second thread, i.e. the one on the damper. Is this also LH and is therefore the second thread mentioned, the one inside the damper which secures it to the crankshaft? This could be a RH thread, it does not matter as no torque is transmitted through it, unlike the other two.

It would make sense to me if the thread on both ends of this short shaft that holds the pulley and fits into the damper were both left hand and the retainer nut inside the damper RH. Is this correct?

Please can you confirm direction of threads for me?

Thanks[/b]



The way I read it is the pulley is left hand only, the bolt in the damper to the crankshaft would be the more normal right hand.

The reason the damper would be left hand is to ensure the rotation does not vibrate the pulley off. This is not an issue on the crank bolt though. This is also not an issue on the cap nut to the side on the engine cover stud, that should be right hand thread as well.

Just a propane torch on the bolt head for a minute would be enough to release any loctite. Just need to warm it up not make it red hot.....

I have one with almost 130k miles now. It does rattle when startup till oil pressure builds as the tensioners are hydraulic. Did you ensure enough oil pressure in the engine after the fix? Or worse yet did parts of the tensioner fall in when heads removed and chains slacked????
 

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The "axle" as you call it is also a left hand thread. It is a real pain to get out! I had the engine out of the car and STILL couldn't get mine loosened! I tried holding the flywheel while trying to loosen the shaft and it kept slipping as well. I finally got it loose by putting a four-foot breaker bar on it and using a floor jack to loosen it. If the engine is still in the car, you can use a flywheel holding tool and the floor jack, then let the car down and the weight of the car will loosen it (that's how I got mine loosened.) If and when you get that out, yes, the crankshaft bolt is a normal right-hand thread and just remove it. Then use a puller and remove the crankshaft dampener. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
QUOTE (jerrysanta @ Jul 12 2009, 11:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=738978
The "axle" as you call it is also a left hand thread. It is a real pain to get out! I had the engine out of the car and STILL couldn't get mine loosened! I tried holding the flywheel while trying to loosen the shaft and it kept slipping as well. I finally got it loose by putting a four-foot breaker bar on it and using a floor jack to loosen it. If the engine is still in the car, you can use a flywheel holding tool and the floor jack, then let the car down and the weight of the car will loosen it (that's how I got mine loosened.) If and when you get that out, yes, the crankshaft bolt is a normal right-hand thread and just remove it. Then use a puller and remove the crankshaft dampener. Good luck.[/b]

Thank you to you and others who have given help. We succeeded in unscrewing the thread as LH. What a lot of time wasted over this small thing. We were a bit mislead by the maintenance file we downloaded

Having removed the cam shaft covers we find that unfortunately it seems as though the rockers have been starved of oil. Since the rockers and the timing belts were noisy it seems as though the tensioners may have been underperforming due to lack of oil pressure too, and blocked or partially blocked oilways could be the cause in both cases. I hope we have caught things in time.

Have you any suggestions for clearing the oilways? Second it is difficult to buy the recommended oil here, the 10W30, so I was recommended to use the 15W45 synthetic on the basis that the climate here is hot and this would therefore be OK. Is it OK to continue with this or would you recommend going with a 0W30 oil that I can buy, although a lot more expensive? Do you recommend an oil flush too before refilling the engine with the correct oil?
 

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To clean out the oil passages use some Auto-RX. Be sure to use non synthetic oil. You just add it to the oil and drive normally changing the filter at ~1500 miles. The directions will be included. The stuff will slowly dissolve the carbon, encapsulate it which allows the filter to remove the carbon. www.auto-rx.com


As far as the oil, as long as the air temperature does not get below 10F the 15w45 should be good though not the best for fuel mileage.
 

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QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 15 2009, 11:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=739599
To clean out the oil passages use some Auto-RX. Be sure to use non synthetic oil. You just add it to the oil and drive normally changing the filter at ~1500 miles. The directions will be included. The stuff will slowly dissolve the carbon, encapsulate it which allows the filter to remove the carbon. www.auto-rx.com


As far as the oil, as long as the air temperature does not get below 10F the 15w45 should be good though not the best for fuel mileage.[/b]
Hi SHOZ123

Thanks for the advice. Temperatures here almost never go below 50 F overnight rising to 70 in the day, maximum can be generally about 95-100F in the day, 70F overnight in the summer. Hence the suggestion that 15W45 may be OK.

The oil flow to one tensioner was blocked and also it was broken inside, so it was not working. The other one just needs cleaning to make sure it is working efficiently when we put it back. I don´t think they sell AutoRX here in Brazil and certainly not in our small town. In fact we have had to go to a machine shop to have the broken part in one tensioner made because spare parts here are so difficult to get hold of. I will see if there is an alternative product to AutoRX.

As I remember, the culture in Europe and I imagine in USA too, is to replace a part when it goes wrong. Here because of the difficulty of getting parts for some cars, especially if imported like mine (there is only one like mine in this town), makes the mechanics look to ways of repairing the old part rather than just substituting it with a new one. Labour costs are much less here. My garage charges about US$15 per hour!

Thank you for your help.

Regards

Maiki do Brasil
 

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QUOTE (Maiki do Brasil @ Jul 16 2009, 06:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=739863
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 15 2009, 11:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=739599
To clean out the oil passages use some Auto-RX. Be sure to use non synthetic oil. You just add it to the oil and drive normally changing the filter at ~1500 miles. The directions will be included. The stuff will slowly dissolve the carbon, encapsulate it which allows the filter to remove the carbon. www.auto-rx.com


As far as the oil, as long as the air temperature does not get below 10F the 15w45 should be good though not the best for fuel mileage.[/b]
Hi SHOZ123

Thanks for the advice. Temperatures here almost never go below 50 F overnight rising to 70 in the day, maximum can be generally about 95-100F in the day, 70F overnight in the summer. Hence the suggestion that 15W45 may be OK.

The oil flow to one tensioner was blocked and also it was broken inside, so it was not working. The other one just needs cleaning to make sure it is working efficiently when we put it back. I don´t think they sell AutoRX here in Brazil and certainly not in our small town. In fact we have had to go to a machine shop to have the broken part in one tensioner made because spare parts here are so difficult to get hold of. I will see if there is an alternative product to AutoRX.

As I remember, the culture in Europe and I imagine in USA too, is to replace a part when it goes wrong. Here because of the difficulty of getting parts for some cars, especially if imported like mine (there is only one like mine in this town), makes the mechanics look to ways of repairing the old part rather than just substituting it with a new one. Labour costs are much less here. My garage charges about US$15 per hour!

Thank you for your help.

Regards

Maiki do Brasil
[/b][/quote]


Auto-RX is only sold online through their website. That being said I have a couple of bottles I could send your way. It is just what you need to clean out the small oil passages safely and slowly.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 16 2009, 11:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=739884
QUOTE (Maiki do Brasil @ Jul 16 2009, 06:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=739863
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jul 15 2009, 11:45 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=739599
To clean out the oil passages use some Auto-RX. Be sure to use non synthetic oil. You just add it to the oil and drive normally changing the filter at ~1500 miles. The directions will be included. The stuff will slowly dissolve the carbon, encapsulate it which allows the filter to remove the carbon. www.auto-rx.com


As far as the oil, as long as the air temperature does not get below 10F the 15w45 should be good though not the best for fuel mileage.[/b]
Hi SHOZ123

Thanks for the advice. Temperatures here almost never go below 50 F overnight rising to 70 in the day, maximum can be generally about 95-100F in the day, 70F overnight in the summer. Hence the suggestion that 15W45 may be OK.

The oil flow to one tensioner was blocked and also it was broken inside, so it was not working. The other one just needs cleaning to make sure it is working efficiently when we put it back. I don´t think they sell AutoRX here in Brazil and certainly not in our small town. In fact we have had to go to a machine shop to have the broken part in one tensioner made because spare parts here are so difficult to get hold of. I will see if there is an alternative product to AutoRX.

As I remember, the culture in Europe and I imagine in USA too, is to replace a part when it goes wrong. Here because of the difficulty of getting parts for some cars, especially if imported like mine (there is only one like mine in this town), makes the mechanics look to ways of repairing the old part rather than just substituting it with a new one. Labour costs are much less here. My garage charges about US$15 per hour!

Thank you for your help.

Regards

Maiki do Brasil
[/b][/quote]


Auto-RX is only sold online through their website. That being said I have a couple of bottles I could send your way. It is just what you need to clean out the small oil passages safely and slowly.
[/b][/quote]

Hello SHOZ123

That is a very kind offer and I would like to take you up on it. How do we do this?

Regards

Maiki do Brasil
 

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where would one get that damper removlae tool? and do i really need it to get the crank pulley and shaft off?? Or can I just unscrew it off with the reverese threads on it. i have an underdrive pully for my tec i would like to take off before the car gets dumped. casue we all know their aint to many of those around.
 

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After you remove the threaded pulley and shaft (left-handed threads as you know,) then you remove the bolt (right-handed treads) from the crankshaft dampener. Now, to remove the dampener itself, you need a puller to remove it as it is pressed onto the crankshaft. Any puller that has a bolt in the middle and holes through which you can screw bolts into the crankshaft will work. Then you tighten the middle bolt and this will pull the dampener off. Good luck.
 
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