Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering if the back windows were on one circuit or on one fuse because i am missing one and i think thats why they wont roll down
would anyone have a fuse box diagram for the 94?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
Welcome to TCCA.

Are you trying to run the rear windows down from their door switch????
If so, make sure the drivers side console "window lock out" switch isn't on.

If thats ok, can you run them down from the rear door switch, or is it just that the drivers side master console switches won't work, but the rear door switches will???? Or is it that none of the switches will control the rear windows????

All power windows are on fuse #6 in the cabin fuse panel, a 15 amp, also on that circuit is the wagon rear washer fluid pump, warning chimes, lights for the clock, electronic climate control & radio.
If that fuse is ok, check position #14, a 20 amp circuit breaker for the power windows, locks & seats.
Let us know what you find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
PAWPAW:

I so wish this thread had been continued. You took the time to reply to the question and then the guy disappeared. So, since I have the same problem, on the same year car, allow me to recycle this dead post and bring it back to life.

I just bought my poor broke son, pregnant daughter-in-law and 7 year old grandson a 94 Mercury Sable GS. They desperately need a car and this one is a beauty. 113K miles and in great shape. Sea foam green. It needed two front tires and a new side mirror. I'm both proud, and ashamed to say that I only paid $600 for the car. I'm having a hard time giving it to them. I want to keep it for myself.

The rear windows don't work from the driver's door switch. They work from the rear door switches only. Essentially, all the windows work perfectly except the rear ones won't work from the drivers door.

Door locks work, seats work, there are no other electrical problems that I am aware of.

Thanks for your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,377 Posts
you need to check for voltage on the window switches for the drivers door. its possible the switch is bad or a broken wire or even a dirty contact. if the switch is bad a replacement from the jy will work ( as long as its good) if its a broken wire then you need to track down the bad wire. more then likely its where the door opens and closes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
Welcome to TCCA.

Seeing as how you have power to the rear windows & they'll roll up & down from their respective door switches, you know the B+ feed to them & the door switches & window motors are ok.

SO, pull the drivers side door master control panel & check for loose electrical connections or broken wires at the switch lug connections.

If all that looks ok, pop the master switch apart & try cleaning those two switches electrical contacts & see if they'll wake up. Here is how I took mine apart, cleaned & lubed them to wake em up. http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/137080-how-fix-door-lock-window-switches.html

Let us know what you find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Bill and Pawpaw:

Thanks for your help.

While I waited for replies, I took the door off, removed the switch module, looked for broken or loose wires and contacts on the switch module plug matrix (not pictured). There were no broken or loose wires on the switch module plug matrix. I still need to check for tightness however. I Then took the switch module apart. Here is what I found.

I checked for continuity between connection posts:

pins.jpg

B and C have continuity only when the window lock is not engaged. (We knew that didn't we?)

A has continuity with all Driver and front Passenger up and down posts when the switches are in the neutral position. When a switch is pressed down the continuity for only that post is lost until the switch is released.

B does not have continuity with any rear up or down posts when the switches are in the neutral position. When any of those switches are depressed, B has continuity with that depressed switch only, and only until the switch is released. All the contacts register .2 farads of resistance

This leads me to believe that all the switches are properly working and the contacts are not damaged or dirty. (The thing looks pretty clean anyway, don't you think?).

inside.jpg

Since neither rear window works from the driver's switches only, it makes me think that it is most likely a common wire they share that might be the problem. Say perhaps the connecter to pin B or the wire to pin B. Otherwise I would have to have two or more connectors or wires malfunctioning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
More mysteries. Or clues depending on how you look at it.

The connectors seem tight.

Experimentation revealed that there is a slight sound in the rear doors when the driver's rear window buttons are pressed.

So, I lowered the rear windows and then tried to use the driver's rear window buttons to activate them. Surprise. One on the rear windows went up! It was slightly slower than when using the switch on the rear door.

Also, when pressing the driver's rear window buttons the rear buttons are affected; press the driver's rear window button to move the rear window down and the rear door button will roll the window down, but will not roll it up (until the driver's rear window button is released). The same works in reverse when pressing the driver's rear window button up . . .the rear button will roll the window up, but not down, until the driver's rear window button is released.

Any advice?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
I was about to ask if they tried to move at all, so you answered that question with a yes & thats how mine were acting out because of excessive switch contact resistance. So use a new dollar bill, or a very fine abrasive paper, like 600-800-1000 grit, fold it double so the grit faces out & slide it between the up & down contact points 5-6 times, spray the contact with CRC QD contact cleaner & see if things get better. They did for me & adding the Conduct-O-Lube to the contact surfaces helped lower contact resistance even more, as the locks & windows operated with much more gusto.

Keep us posted on your findings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
PawPaw you are the greatest. You nailed it.

The important thing to remember is that each contact has two pairs of contacts. One that is normally open and one that is normally closed. That's four pairs of contacts that need to get cleaned for each switch.

Before I realized that, I finished cleaning all the contacts . . .you know, gently open the contacts, slip a piece of paper in between them and slide it back and forth. When I got the contacts on the two switches finished I put it back together and tested it with an ohm meter. I had some resistance still.

It was then that it dawned on me that there were four more contacts (the ones that are normally open) that needed to have a piece of paper slipped between them and cleaned. I slid the paper in place and then gently pressed the contact together while sliding the paper back and forth. That did it.

Well almost. After installation, one rear window still won't go up. (It goes down.) I'm opening the switch again and going to re-clean that one. I'm certain it will solve the problem.

I presume the reason for a NEW dollar bill is so that it has some abrasion to it. I also presume a good stiff piece of new paper will do the same thing. If I use a 600-800-1000 grit sand paper, I presume the job will go quicker, but the risk is that I remove too much of the precious coating on the contacts.

Could you expound on that a little?

Thanks again. I'll let you know when I get the last contact working.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
OK good, it seems so far, that your problem may be contact point resistance.

SO, lets think about this some more. If the contact points have some oxide/dirt on them, a cleaning with QD, or a gentle buffing with a new/clean dollar bill, should be just abrasive enough to remove that surface contact debris & not harm any silver, or gold plating & won't leave any surface contact contamination. The dollar bill is made from rag paper, not from wood pulp, so be mindful of that if you use a paper product to clean the contacts. Many paper producs have ink, dye, wax & who knows what else blended in & you want to leave those contacts squeeky clean when finished, or the arcing that takes place when the contacts make & break, can bake any contamination right back on the contacts over time.

If that doesn't bring joy, then those contacts aren't likely made from, or plated with a precious metal, or its worn off & the underlying metal has oxidized & built up resistance & if thats so, you'll need a more agressive approach, like a very fine grit size silicone carbide sand paper, like that used to wet buff out auto paint, or polish out cloudy plastic headlight lenses, whos grit is harder than the oxide or contact metal, so it can cut through the oxide & get to fresh metal, without removing too much material.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
That last contact was stubborn. I was ready to try a little fine grit sand paper, but all I had was 400 grit. I really did not want to use that.

Then I hit upon the brilliant idea of spraying the dollar bill strips with contact cleaner (yup, I cut my dollar bill into strips and fed them into the tight spots to rub them back and forth). I used Spra Kleen Cleaner and Lubricant, which was all I had. It did the trick. The contacts that I never had any problem with showed 0.1 farad of resistance, so I figured if I could get the troublesome ones down to that it would be fine. Now they are all at 0.1 farads.

The windows work like a charm.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
OK, good feedback. Way to hang in there & be persistant on your trouble shoot, find the root cause & put the MacGiver fix on it!!!!! lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I've got to say that I am very surprised at how little resistance was necessary to prevent the rear windows from working. The continuity tester was not sufficient to register the problem. It took on ohm meter and even then, minimal resistance (about 1.0 fared) was enough to stop those windows.

I would suspect that those contacts are not coated with a precious metal or they would not have caused this problem. Still, I would NOT use anything courser than a new dollar bill or a 600-800-1000 grit sand paper. Spray a little cleaner on it if it doesn't seem to be working.

Finally, to all those having similar problems with windows that are not working . . . barring, some obvious damage to the wiring I would suspect the contacts first.

Thanks for the help and I hope this thread helps lots of other people in the future. If it does, please take the time to come back and add your thanks to the thread.

Cheerio


Now . . . let's see . . . I wonder what it's going to take to get all those door panel lights going again. Hmmm . . . maybe I'll repair the the neoprene trunk seal with a little AuqaSeal while I think about it . . . .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
Seeing as how the window motors only have 12 volts electrical pressure to work with & the motors are power hungry/require a large volume of electrical energy to work, it doesn't require much switch contact, wire, or electrical connector ohms of resistance to electrical flow, to act as a choke point, to restrict electrical flow to the window motors, or door lock solenoids & cause them to be wimpy & not work well, or at all as in our cases.

So the window switch contact point resistance value needs to be as low as possible, to prevent electrical pressure/voltage drop, across the contacts & seeing as how they arc & spark each time we use them & those arcs & sparks produce lots of heat, any contamination, or oxidization on the contact surface gets baked on, produces resistance to electron flow & electrical pressure/voltage drop, all a vicious circle!!!!!

Same for the vehicles other electrical systems, especially power hungry things like the starter motor, fuel pump, ignition system, cooling fans, computer, lights, ect, ect, so we need to keep our alternator & battery connections, posts & cables in pristine condition, with their electrical connections clean, bright & tight!!!!!

Reps to you for your trouble shooting & feedback.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,537 Posts
The window motors use relays inside the window regulator. No way all that current is being sent through those little switch contacts. They would weld themselves together in short order. The switches send power to the relays, which close and power the motor directly from the battery.

Yes, 1Ω can be a big deal for switches. You need a very good DMM to measure low resistances like that reliably. It's much more useful to look at the voltage drop with current running through the circuit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,377 Posts
feedback is wonderful. this will help others in the future. love that you listed the material used also. losing a dollar is a lot cheaper then going to a shop. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
feedback is wonderful. this will help others in the future. love that you listed the material used also. losing a dollar is a lot cheaper then going to a shop. lol
by a few bucks anyways :p well, if you don't rip the bill up.. LOL

Seriously, to the OP, PawPaw and everyone else who contributed.. This is an excellent, EXCELLENT thread. I can't say I have any of the issues listed but should I, I feel confident that the task would be completed within an hour.

THIS is a perfect example of a diagnostics/"HELP ME FIX MAI CAR U GUISE" thread.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,537 Posts
feedback is wonderful. this will help others in the future. love that you listed the material used also. losing a dollar is a lot cheaper then going to a shop. lol
You can always go to the bank and get a new one if you have pieces with both serial numbers. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
You need a very good DMM to measure low resistances like that reliably.
Behlinla:

Thanks for that clarification on the relays. Something about all that power going through the switches stuck me as odd, but then I thought, "hey, it's only 12 volts."

As for the meter, mine is a Fluke 117. I struggled for years with a cheaper meter. Always being dissatisfied with it. This one does the job dandily.

Okay, I have a confession. The only NEW dollar I had was a nice crisp $100 dollar bill. I cut it up into strips and used the strips. When I was finished, I carefully taped it back together. I hope no one notices when I go to spend it:)

I wish I had thought to go back and re-clean all the contacts with strips of 'dollar' sprayed with contact cleaner. I think it would have done a better job.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top