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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, so at least the smell is gone in the vacuum line per Jeff K's recommendation.

I am trying to get this timing set right and I just cannot seem to get it.

The dual belt system is making it so I cannot even see the timing marks (I can see the timing indicator I painted on). How are you supposed to time it? The torque strut mount bolted to the engine bay strut tower is taking up room.


Here's where the distributor and TFI module are right now:


Exhaust clip:

 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I tried Dave's method for about 45 minutes today and something still just doesn't seem right. It likes to die/cough after it's started up. Doesn't stay running well. Once it's warmed up it seems fine. I held a napkin up to the exhaust and it had black soot marks on it :lol:

If I ever need to get to something behind the dash, I can just tear open the dashboard to the area I need to reach.
 

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Timing?

I tried Dave's method for about 45 minutes today and something still just doesn't seem right. It likes to die/cough after it's started up. Doesn't stay running well. Once it's warmed up it seems fine. I held a napkin up to the exhaust and it had black soot marks on it :lol:

If I ever need to get to something behind the dash, I can just tear open the dashboard to the area I need to reach.
Likely there is something else wrong. I put a dist in a '87 Sable beside the road and drove home about 80 miles. Ran fine. I just turned it so it idled ok.

But that is old school.

-chart-
 

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If the belts are stopping you from seeing the timing marks, just remove the belts, start the engine, and set the timing. It wont hurt a thing to run a cool engine for 2 or 3 minutes at idle with no water pump, alternator, etc.

Did you pull the SPOUT connector to set timing?
 

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Spout Connector?

If the belts are stopping you from seeing the timing marks, just remove the belts, start the engine, and set the timing. It wont hurt a thing to run a cool engine for 2 or 3 minutes at idle with no water pump, alternator, etc.

Did you pull the SPOUT connector to set timing?
Wow, you are old school also!:lol2:

Or, when all else fails, read the direct....

Good Call.

-chart-
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yup, I did pull the SPOUT connector.

The engine torque strut (?) bolted to the passenger strut tower is what's really in the way. If I can remove the bracket and the strut, I will be able to see the timing marks on the pulley. Just not sure if that's kosher to do?

Starting to wonder if the MAP sensor I got off eBay is bad. My DMM doesn't do frequency...may stop at NAPA and pick up a replacement to see if it changes things. Don't like throwing parts, but the car ran better when I first got it running on the old MAP sensor.
 

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Well with the MAP sensor you should be able to test it just by setting the DMM to resistance and varying the pressures/vacuum at the input ports. I can look on Mitchells to see if there's a test procedure, if you want.
 

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In the old days, with a good ear, you could just loosen the dizzy hold-down bolt and time by ear like Chart suggests, lol. Get pretty darn close!
 

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WJC... MAP and BARO sensor output is a square wave 5 volt frequency output, not an analog voltage signal. You need a DMM that reads frequency or a scope, or the long obsoleted Ford MAP/BARO tester. At atmospheric pressure, around 159 Hz is typical, depending on altitude, and "perfect vacuum" is around 88 Hz.

Chart... Yup, I am old school (and 55 years old), and proud of it. I currently own 3 EEC IV vehicles, as well as 3 OBDII (see sig). I grew up on Holley, Carter, and Thermoquad carbs and points / condenser ignition systems in big V8 pushrod engines back when there were maybe 4 wires going to the engine. I got dragged kicking and screaming into the world of computerized engine and chassis controls in the early 80s, but I adapted quickly with my Physics and Electrical Engineering background.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is the multimeter I have:
RadioShack® 15-Range Digital Multimeter - RadioShack.com
I don't see the word Frequency on the page. Or is it there under a different name?

I wish I had taken a class in electrical engineering fundamentals or something in school. Would be quite useful right now.

I think the problem I am running into with setting the timing by listening is that since it currently idles so poorly, and runs so rich, I have no way of telling really, especially since it stalls out and dies 4 or 5 times before it's warmed up. IAC is doing a good job at recovering the idle half the time. Shoot I could get my tach cluster out, ground out the two black wires since it's a V6, and twist the tach wire together with the port on the ignition coil (green yellow), and at least have some reference.
 

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Nope, that meter doesnt read frequency. Sorry. I use various Fluke DMMs at work and they all read frequency as well as do tons of other stuff like true RMS voltage, 10 microvolt resolution, capacitance, peak/hold, etc, but cost $200 to $500 each. At home, I have an old (early 1980s) dedicated frequency meter I got free from work when they were going to throw it out since it was outdated. Works great for my purposes!
 

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Old School

WJC... MAP and BARO sensor output is a square wave 5 volt frequency output, not an analog voltage signal. You need a DMM that reads frequency or a scope, or the long obsoleted Ford MAP/BARO tester. At atmospheric pressure, around 159 Hz is typical, depending on altitude, and "perfect vacuum" is around 88 Hz.

Chart... Yup, I am old school (and 55 years old), and proud of it. I currently own 3 EEC IV vehicles, as well as 3 OBDII (see sig). I grew up on Holley, Carter, and Thermoquad carbs and points / condenser ignition systems in big V8 pushrod engines back when there were maybe 4 wires going to the engine. I got dragged kicking and screaming into the world of computerized engine and chassis controls in the early 80s, but I adapted quickly with my Physics and Electrical Engineering background.
Yes spread bores and AVS (air valve secondary) and progressive linkage.
I really like progressive plates.
But that is not dead. My Lin Intech has progressive dual butterfly. Keeps it light on light throttle and comes on about half way down. Talks a bit like a 4 barrel, but with 4 valve per/ it screams. I wish the Ford DOHC used a progressive, but guess that costs too much. Gotta have two TPS's.

My '03 Sable DOHC does not say much, just whooosh. Probably a way to remove the silencer.

Oh well back to day care for the grandsons. Half day of school today. That is what old coots do. Lunch at Subway, walk the Mall, TV now.

Happy motoring.

-chart-

ps I remember the flat head Fords with the dist on the front of the cam, dual points. No maintenance. Coil and dist combined. Wow, and that came back later for GM. Not much new. 4 volt coil, 6 volts to start. Another idea that ran on for years and years. And not much has canged with Ford. I had a '35, '36, '39, all engines bad. Took them all apart and tried to see if I could make one. No two alike. And one really strange. Had floating rod bearings with hardened steel rods. The bearing inserts could turn on the shaft or in the rods. Inserts had babbit on both inside and out. Other years had standard inserts. One had water pump in the head, two had pump in the block. Sold the whole mess for $35.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ah drat :\ Oh well...time for a NAPA MAP then as backup.

Chart, if you pop out the intake silencer (have a video under topic finder), you will notice a very slight increase in sound. To be honest it isn't all that noticeable on my 2000. it probably doesn't help that Ford added extra sound insulation to 2003 models, so YMMV :)
 

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Intake sound

Ah drat :\ Oh well...time for a NAPA MAP then as backup.

Chart, if you pop out the intake silencer (have a video under topic finder), you will notice a very slight increase in sound. To be honest it isn't all that noticeable on my 2000. it probably doesn't help that Ford added extra sound insulation to 2003 models, so YMMV :)
Thanks, I may try that on my '01. Maybe when I get it back from my daughter.B)

-chart-
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK ...removed torque strut. Could see markings and all, definitely necessary to do the job if you aren't a creative engineer :)

Removed SPOUT connector. Set timing for 11-12 BTDC.
Plugged back in SPOUT connector.
Timing is now more like 15-20 BTDC.

Is that normal? I have a video demonstration if needed.
 

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Spout

OK ...removed torque strut. Could see markings and all, definitely necessary to do the job if you aren't a creative engineer :)

Removed SPOUT connector. Set timing for 11-12 BTDC.
Plugged back in SPOUT connector.
Timing is now more like 15-20 BTDC.

Is that normal? I have a video demonstration if needed.
Yes, the SPOUT removal gives base line, or NO ADVANCE. With it plugged in, the processor will advance the timing, depending on the need.

You likely alread did this but:

I get under the car with a white paint marker and mark the line of spec on the degree wheel. Then paint the pointer. On the Essex you have to use a mirror on a stick, point the timing light at the mirror, look in the mirror at the same time to see the mark. And then with your third hand adjust the dist. :p

And then, "mirror immage". Needs to be done in the dark or near dark. Gotta love it.

-chart-
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yup I painted 10 degrees BTDC on the degree wheel, and the timing indicator on the block awhile back.

I wish I had a helper to do the job. Kept turning the car on, check, turn car off, adjust, turn car on, check.................... That must have been a real treat on the Essex, no thanks! :lol:

Since it was cloudy the timing light worked perfect. Never timed a car before but that was fun.

So I am actually done timing the car then? :) It's still not 100% smooth but oh well. Maybe it'll fix itself to run smoother once I drive it some?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The beast is alive:

The white mark with a dot next to it is 0 degrees BTDC. the line to the right of it is 10 degrees BTDC. That is with the SPOUT connected.

I installed a new MAP sensor from NAPA. Exhaust doesn't smell as rich anymore, but that could have been due to the timing. Oh well, I have a spare now.
 

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You should have come to Carlisle, Nick. I picked up a spare MAP, spare BARO (basically a MAP used to measure ambient pressure), and a spare IRCM al 3 for $10.

Timing wont make it way rich, so my guess is the original MAP was bad / out of range. EEC IV generally wont set a code for out of range MAP, only if the MAP isnt outputting any signal at all.
 
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