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Ok, not yet on the pictures tho. I still need to scan the pictures my mechanic took for me.

Yes, DMX and Doc, there seems to be a difference in the two engines. Like dished pistons?!


And my head combustion chambers don't look heart shaped either.


This engine definitely has a lower compression than a stock 3.8L. Me thinks that they were going somewhere else with this motor... but didn't.


The plot thickens... :evilgrin2:
 

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Oh yeah.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY!!

(sorry, but there was no dancing turkey.
)
 

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And then Doc said:

QUOTE
Like dished pistons?![/b]


IIRC, they also switched to an open chamber head design for those engines. The heart shape was not very noticeable anyway. The deeply dished pistons would definitely have played an important part in reducing the CR.
 

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And then I said:

________________________________________________

And here are the pics!


(1). You may think they're bad headgaskets, but the 3.8L actually has a self-clean mode!!! :p That doesn't turn off. :roll: #4 Cyl.



(2). #5 cyl.



(3). #6 cyl. Anyone know of a good decarbonizer fuel treatment?




(4). #3 cyl.



(5). #2 cyl.



(6). #1 cyl.



(7). The front head. (#4 at right. The steam cleaned one.)



(8). And the rear head.

 
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Excellent news on the pistons. I wonder if I can jam those in a Vulcan? I'll look up the bore size later.
 
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I don't wanna steal the thread, but are there more than just the Morana pistons available?
 

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Yes indeed. Lower compression pistons (JE, Wiseco) designed for the 3.0 Yamaha block should work fine. You will need to swap rods, but should be able to keep the crank as, IIRC, the rod journal diameter and width are the same between the Vulcan and 3.0 Yamaha. I'm sure if Mr Nimz sees this before I find the specs, he'll post his findings. Hint hint nudge nudge.


Curiously, why do you want new pistons other than for lower compression? There are guys running their V6 Yamaha blocks up to 7000 RPM on stock internals under 15lbs of boost. The hyperutic pistons are very durable so long as you don't run into detonation. It's the crank I would be concerned about, if anything, but even at that, I wouldn't be to concerned. On a car that is cheap and just supposed to be a project, you can go with alky injection. This will significantly reduce any knock, assuming any will be present in the first place.

What kind of blower are you running? Twin screw I assume? Instead of going with the Supercoupe blower, which I assume you are doing, you might look at the blower from the 97+ GTP. It has a built in wastegate, which will make plumbing easier. What are you using for an idle air bypass?

Sorry to take this OT Hamal, but this does still have something to do with pistons????
 
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Originally posted by Mikeys_Taurus@Dec 13 2003, 06:56 PM
Yes indeed. Lower compression pistons (JE, Wiseco) designed for the 3.0 Yamaha block should work fine. You will need to swap rods, but should be able to keep the crank as, IIRC, the rod journal diameter and width are the same between the Vulcan and 3.0 Yamaha. I'm sure if Mr Nimz sees this before I find the specs, he'll post his findings. Hint hint nudge nudge.


Curiously, why do you want new pistons other than for lower compression? There are guys running their V6 Yamaha blocks up to 7000 RPM on stock internals under 15lbs of boost. The hyperutic pistons are very durable so long as you don't run into detonation. It's the crank I would be concerned about, if anything, but even at that, I wouldn't be to concerned. On a car that is cheap and just supposed to be a project, you can go with alky injection. This will significantly reduce any knock, assuming any will be present in the first place.

What kind of blower are you running? Twin screw I assume? Instead of going with the Supercoupe blower, which I assume you are doing, you might look at the blower from the 97+ GTP. It has a built in wastegate, which will make plumbing easier. What are you using for an idle air bypass?

Sorry to take this OT Hamal, but this does still have something to do with pistons????
We need to move this over to a "Bob's SC Vulcan thread".
I'll start one.
 
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Thanks Hamal!

Mikey-- I was thinking different pistons for lower compression. I was also trying to do it on a budget (read--cheap
). My plans originally involved the M90, but the more I read and talk to people, the more it seems like the later model GM unit is the one to use.

To make sure I'm straight on this-- The vulcan internals consist of hypereutectic pistons, forged rods, and cast crank, correct? If so, I agree, the crank is the weak link. Vulcans can be had cheap though, in fact I have the whole driveline from a 96 to use for a rebuild and supercharger. I'm really not concerned about grenading a Vulcan at this point, I'll still have a spare.

That said, I'd like to run about 12 PSI, with a small shot of nitrous for the 1/4 mile. I'm thinking detonation can be controlled in the tuning of the car (timing advance, etc), some sort of water/alky injection, intercooling, and finally the nitrous itself. I was thinking the nitrous cools the intake charge, and would help prevent detonation under severe loads, such as the dragstrip. Just a theory, correct me if I'm wrong! Any suggestions on water/alky injection? I know you were working on something like that, any info will be greatly appreciated.

I honestly am still in the beginning stages of this. I hadn't even gotten to think about idle air bypass. Any suggestions?
 

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QUOTE
Mikey-- I was thinking different pistons for lower compression. I was also trying to do it on a budget (read--cheap ). My plans originally involved the M90, but the more I read and talk to people, the more it seems like the later model GM unit is the one to use.[/b]
Both the Supercoupe blowers and the GM 3800 blowers are M90s. The nice thing about the GM unit is that it is the newer more efficient supercharger. It also incorporates a built in wastegate, which may be something the Supercoupe blower does also, but off the top of my head, I don't think so.

QUOTE
To make sure I'm straight on this-- The vulcan internals consist of hypereutectic pistons, forged rods, and cast crank, correct? If so, I agree, the crank is the weak link. Vulcans can be had cheap though, in fact I have the whole driveline from a 96 to use for a rebuild and supercharger. I'm really not concerned about grenading a Vulcan at this point, I'll still have a spare.[/b]
Exactly right, but even at that, I wouldn't feel the need to replace the crank, because the motor doesn't spin very high. With the blower, you'll actually be moving your power band down, so the motor will pretty much retain it's stock shift points. At least, in theory, it should.

IMO, 12lbs of boost is a little excessive. You're going to run into a lot of tuning issues with that car if that's the case. 12lbs is a lot anyhow. I'm running a high 13 on the GTP and I'm maxing out at 8lbs of boost. I know this is comparing apples to oranges, but it gives you an idea. I think a much more modest 6lbs would be in order. Then if you run into knock, you can always use the nitrous to cool the charge.

QUOTE
That said, I'd like to run about 12 PSI, with a small shot of nitrous for the 1/4 mile. I'm thinking detonation can be controlled in the tuning of the car (timing advance, etc), some sort of water/alky injection, intercooling, and finally the nitrous itself. I was thinking the nitrous cools the intake charge, and would help prevent detonation under severe loads, such as the dragstrip. Just a theory, correct me if I'm wrong! Any suggestions on water/alky injection? I know you were working on something like that, any info will be greatly appreciated.[/b]
What car is the doc killer? Is it the Gen III? I hope it is, because then with the EEC tuner you can control the shift points, but more importantly you have a knock sensor that you can view in real time to check for detonation. Auto tap sells a Palm pilot/ OBD II diag kit that mounts to your dash. As you are driving, it will be able to tell you how many degrees the computer is retarding the motor because of knock. You want none, but 1 - 3 is acceptable. You also probably want to drop down two heat ranges colder on the plugs and drop in a 180 degree thermostat. This will help greatly in reducing potential knock.

The water injection is simple. I was using an old windshield washer motor and resivour with a .30 nitrous jet running through a fan spray nozzle. I never wired it into a window switch, but used it manually. It's going to be different with a twin screw though. The teflon coated impellers don't like the water or anything for that matter (nitrous). I'm trying to get a local member with a blown Tbird and alky injection to help me make a kit for my car that puts the jet on the blower housing, below the impellers.

phew... I'm out of breath!
 

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Originally posted by Racer X@Dec 13 2003, 03:28 AM
Ok, not yet on the pictures tho. I still need to scan the pictures my mechanic took for me.

Yes, DMX and Doc, there seems to be a difference in the two engines. Like dished pistons?!


And my head combustion chambers don't look heart shaped either.


This engine definitely has a lower compression than a stock 3.8L. Me thinks that they were going somewhere else with this motor... but didn't.


The plot thickens... :evilgrin2:
I dont know, the pistons look the same to me??



Is the CC volume noticable larger? That oughtta drop the CR down some.

Did you notice any extra "webbing" in that lifter valley area to strengthen the block some?
 
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Excellent info Mikey--maybe lower boost is the way to go. I plan on contacting a cam grinder, to find out their recommendations based on the blower setup. I've been told that the Supercoupe unit does not have an integrated waste gate. It seems that the GM unit would be cheaper in the long run due to less fabrication.

I'm definitely going to add water injection, since it seems rather simple to implement. Since I'm making a custom upper manifold for this anyway, I can plumb it in below the blower, in the intake runners (or what's left of them).

Not sure on the other Gens of Vulcan, but the Gen 3 (non FFV) uses the IAT to control advance. The Tec and SHO have knock sensors, and I'm not sure about the FFV.

The 97 is the Doc killer. I picked it because it's not a rustbucket, and has a tighter overall setup than the previous gens. Actually, suspension wise it's almost there. It's got SHO springs, disabled SARC's, an FSTB (duh) and SFC's (duh, part deux). I need to upgrade the bushings, and install a 23 mm RSB. Brakes will be upgraded with better pads, but I'm planning on keeping the smaller SLO setup for less rotational mass.

I'll free up the exhaust with a 4" catback and huge krome APC muffler.
Seriously, I'm planning on a single 2 1/2" cat back and I have a 50 series Flowmaster on the way.

That leaves the issue of the AX4S undetermined. I have a spare, as I mentioned. I may send it out to Dudek's guy for a rebuild and installation of a Transgo kit, unless I find a better alternative.
 

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why not an ax4n?

and does anyone know how hard it is to install a shift kit (provided the tranny is out)?

Brad
 
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Trying not to deal with the hassle of incorporating the 4N into the existing driveline. As far as the shift kit, it should be fairly easy with the trans out. AFAIK, it installs in the valve body, which is easy to remove with the trans out.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Originally posted by DMX@Dec 14 2003, 05:18 PM
I dont know, the pistons look the same to me??
Hmm... so much for the different piston theory. <_<

I don't know about the webbing in the lifter valley area, as I wasn't there when the motor was apart. I was working my @ss off to pay for this.
I do know that the bellhousing on both the police block and AX4S are reenforced, and there is extra webbing on the outside of the block near the bellhousing, IIRC. Also, the police 3.8L has craky thick windage tray that ties the mains together, which also reenforces the block.

*edit*
I meant crazy thick. Not craky.
 
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Originally posted by Racer X@Dec 14 2003, 06:30 PM
Also, the police 3.8L has craky thick windage tray that ties the mains together, which also reenforces the block.
That there's a stud girdle. Damn, with all this cool stuff, I'm wanting to drop a PI 3.8 into that 93 I have. <_<
 
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