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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
About a month ago I was driving my car,and it sputtered and died on the side of the road,got it home by getting it towed,apparently had bad gas and was told that the fuel was bad,changed fuel pump & fuel filter,now the car wont start,sometimes it will cough a little and wont turn over,now I have gotten the car to start and run with throttle body clean,first attempt will start and run for a few seconds,next time a few more and so on,actually ran for about 7 minutes on its own but the last 2 minutes was more have a sputtering of the engine then a clean run,all my resources have run out and NO ONE has a clue what it might be,does anyone have any ideas or suggestions

Thanks
Steve

Forgot 3.0 V6 Engine
 

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Vac leak? TFI failing? PIP failing?
 

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Kinda sounds like a fuel delivery problem on your 95 Vulcan 3.0L.

At KOEO, can you hear the pump run a couple of seconds to prime the system & cut off????

If so, since you say you think maybe you had some bad gas, consider doing a fuel pressure check & a fuel delivery volume vs time check. I'm thinking maybe a clogged fuel filter, acting out pressure regulator, or maybe a pinched or clogged fuel return line after you dropped the tank to replace the pump.

If all that checks out ok, look to the spark delivery system for problems.
 
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^+1 on pawpaw's reply. In addition to one of the fuel return lines, something in one of the fuel delivery lines that was handled during the fuel pump and fuel filter replacement could have gotten messed up (constricted, not reconnected properly, etc). Check for fuel leaks, first from the fuel tank to the new fuel filter (make sure it was installed properly), then throughout the rest of the fuel line system.

The reason the engine starts and runs longer the more times you try, may be because each startup activates the fuel pump, which builds more pressure in the fuel delivery lines, temporarily getting more fuel to the engine, but this helps only so much due to whatever's wrong.

Since you're seeing some improvement after replacing the fuel filter and pump, and cleaning the throttle body [EDIT: I guess you actually meant using throttle body cleaner as starting fluid], but since you're still seeing a problem, and if the diagnosis of "bad gas" was accurate as the cause of the initial problem, then it may have gotten gunk into something more than the fuel filter and pump. Maybe you should pour some Seafoam or other cleaner into the gas tank, or do an even more thorough fuel system cleanout (others here can give details, or do a forum search on it).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks everyone for your replies

1.danhasenauer not sure which one,24v sho but that wasnt listed in the 2 you asked about
2.pawpaw yes I do hear the pump kick on,I did do a fuel pressure check,spark is good,fuel filter is new,replaced the return fuel line,pressure regulator good,
3.JohnSawyer No leaks and all fuel lines are replaced,when we dropped the tank we had allthe bad gas out,I filled it with premium plus seafoam,then add regular unleaded with the remaining seafoam.
4.Jeff K....I was told all those check out fine


This car has a lot of people confused as to what the problem is
 

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Lets think about this some more.
Seeing as how it takes compression, air, fuel & spark to make em run, your missing one or more of those.

Seeing as how you say it has spark & will run with starter fluid, it still seems to me it's likely a fuel delivery problem.

Pump pressure should be about 39-40 psi with the FPR vacuum line detached & lower, but at least 28 psi with the vacuum line on the regulator & the engine running. I'm not certain what the specified fuel delivery rate vs time is for our pump, but I'll bet someone knows, so make sure the new pump is up to snuff. Just because it's new, doesn't automatically earn it a pass, I've seen plenty of bad new parts right out of the box, so make it prove itself!!!!

Make sure the battery & alternator output is up to snuff.
Make sure the pump has full B+ voltage to it, no loose or corroded electrical connections, or broken wire strands that feed power to it that would cause an under load voltage drop.

I know you posted that the fuel pressure regulator checks ok, but make sure the regulators vacuum line doesn't have gas in it, if it's wet inside, the regulators diaphragm is leaking fuel into the vacuum system & will cause a rich fuel mixture & mess with fuel pressure & delivery rate.

You didn't define what "bad gas" was, but if it was debris laden I suppose the injectors sintered filters could be plugged up with fine debris & that would cause them to give a lean squirt. Same if the fuel pump pressure or delivery rate is off.

Is the CEL lit???? If so, pull & post All of the trouble code Numbers found, as they can offer up good trouble shooting clues.

More thoughts for pondering. Let us know what you find.
 

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the specified fuel delivery rate vs time is for our pump
AllData says the fuel delivery rate should be half a pint in 15 seconds from the fuel line's Schrader test valve. Coincidentally, I just did this and the fuel pressure tests on my Taurus as part of the auto class I'm taking. My fuel delivery rate met the spec, and my fuel pressure tests did too: with Key On, Engine Running, fuel pressure was 31 PSI while vacuum was applied to the FPR, and 40 PSI with vacuum removed from the FPR. So Bigred, your numbers should be pretty similar.

Is the CEL lit???? If so, pull & post All of the trouble code Numbers found
Is it possible that trouble codes could be stored that might be relevant to Bigred's problem, but which wouldn't trigger the CEL?

Your troubleshooting steps are excellent as usual, pawpaw.
 

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Yup, JohnSawyer is right about pending trouble codes being stored & the CEL not yet being lit, because they haven't happened often enough for the computer to get aggreviated enough to turn it on, lol, so scan the computer for trouble codes even if the CEL isn't on & post All of the code Numbers.

John, thanks for posting our fuel pump flow rate, it's going in my info lacking manual right now!!!!

Bigredno38, keep us posted on your troubleshoot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks again guys,I will pass on this info to the guys who are helping me and will let you know what happens

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK,first,on the bad gas,it wasnt debris laden but it was a awful smell,smelled like pure grain alcohol,and I was told it was bad gas

Pawpaw The regulators vacuum line was dry,so Im good there and all the numbers are good on the fuel pump so that should be ok,would hate to change that again,now when my car would run the longest and start to sputter,before it would die,the CEL light did come on,but I have no way to check the trouble code as Autozone wont rent out the code readers,is there something I can do to check myself

Thanks
Steve
 

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Easy to check codes yourself on OBDI / EEC IV. All you need is a jumper wire to jumper STI to SIG RETURN at the EEC TEST connector and watch the CEL flash out codes. There are instructions all over the web on how to do this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ok for some reason NOONE around here has a OBDI scanner,but I was told another possible 2 things

1.Catalytic Convertor
2.Timing Chain

Any thoughts

Thanks
Steve
 

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Get the codes! Do it yourself with a jumper wire. First place to start diagnosing problems is ALWAYS to get the codes!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Jeff K...A couple of things,Can I do the test by myself or should I have someone with me,where can I get a jumper wire,is that at any hardware store,I have to do this myself as all my help are busy guys,and its stuff im not to familiar with

Thanks
Steve
 

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I always used just a paper clip on my G2's....
 

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Yup, use a bent open paper clip!
 

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