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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Boy oh boy, its been 2 years since ive been on here...wow, so how is everyone doing??? I decided to put the problem that we have been having up on here since you guys have been so helpful in the past. We have been having trouble over the past few months with this thing. In Case you guys dont remember the taurus we have is a 2001 Vulcan with the if i remember correctly AX4S trans??? Anyways a couple months ago we started having trouble with the car running really rough all the time and it would feel like it was missing especially under light throttle and the engine being under a load whether going up a slight hill or something like that. Also we were getting a engine code of P0133 which i think was an 02 Sensor code and it said CKT slow Responce Bank 1 Sensor 1. I ended up clearing the code and it hasnt been back since. Not long after clearing the code we did a tune up on the car which involved replacing the air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, and the plug wires as well. The car after doing this is much better, but still isnt quite right. This is my grandfathers car and he doesnt drive it much just now due to a knee replacement and having surgery. Upon replacing the plugs, some of the old plugs were gapped at like .070" which is way above the .044-.046" that it requires( this was set at the ford dealer back at its 60k service). I am assuming this was a big problem to why it was missing since it runs much better. Now as of recently when you start it up and say put it in gear but keep the car stopped by holding the brake pedal it will feel like its missing bad but once it warms up it seems just fine. My question here is what could be causing this. Does the engine code I got mean anything? Should I replace it? Also Can anyone tell me which O2 sensor this is and where it is located? Its not a real hurry to figure this out but I just wanted to put it out there to see if anyone could come up with anything or had this issue. Thanks....Brad, P.S. Glad to be back on here once again!!!!
 

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Bank1 sensor1 is the upstream firewall sensor. I would check for vacuum leaks (pcv hose, etc.) and maybe check/replace coil pack.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bank1 sensor1 is the upstream firewall sensor. I would check for vacuum leaks (pcv hose, etc.) and maybe check/replace coil pack.
so the 02 up more or less in the header on the firewall side? also wouldnt a vacuum leak make the car idle higher? We havent noticed anything as far as a high idle, and a vacuum leak wouldnt just go away everytime the car warms up, i would think....
 

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Pcv

Boy oh boy, its been 2 years since ive been on here...wow, so how is everyone doing??? I decided to put the problem that we have been having up on here since you guys have been so helpful in the past. We have been having trouble over the past few months with this thing. In Case you guys dont remember the taurus we have is a 2001 Vulcan with the if i remember correctly AX4S trans??? Anyways a couple months ago we started having trouble with the car running really rough all the time and it would feel like it was missing especially under light throttle and the engine being under a load whether going up a slight hill or something like that. Also we were getting a engine code of P0133 which i think was an 02 Sensor code and it said CKT slow Responce Bank 1 Sensor 1. I ended up clearing the code and it hasnt been back since. Not long after clearing the code we did a tune up on the car which involved replacing the air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs, and the plug wires as well. The car after doing this is much better, but still isnt quite right. This is my grandfathers car and he doesnt drive it much just now due to a knee replacement and having surgery. Upon replacing the plugs, some of the old plugs were gapped at like .070" which is way above the .044-.046" that it requires( this was set at the ford dealer back at its 60k service). I am assuming this was a big problem to why it was missing since it runs much better. Now as of recently when you start it up and say put it in gear but keep the car stopped by holding the brake pedal it will feel like its missing bad but once it warms up it seems just fine. My question here is what could be causing this. Does the engine code I got mean anything? Should I replace it? Also Can anyone tell me which O2 sensor this is and where it is located? Its not a real hurry to figure this out but I just wanted to put it out there to see if anyone could come up with anything or had this issue. Thanks....Brad, P.S. Glad to be back on here once again!!!!
I did not see you mention PCV valve. Easy and cheap.

There is a real good reason why there is a specific spark plug gap. Makers have tested and know. Closer gap is easier for the spark to jump, low power, larger gap makes a hotter spark but more likely to not spark at all under age and pressure. Add to that the possiblity of an open spark plug wire. Old school we would check the resistance of each wire. If I bought new ones, I would test them before installing. Easy to assume new is perfect. Experience debunks that thought.

As to codes, most have to see more than one error to set the light. Before they just be "pending". After resetting the light, the system has to have so many starts, (not publised number) to build a history base. about 20 to 30 cold starts to 160 degrees or more. During this period, many errors will not set the light. Many emissions inspections by states will not pass a car that is in the process of building a history after resetting the light. They call it "not ready".

Some used car dealers will reset the light, even if it is not on just to buy that passing of time to get through the 30 day warrenty period. Trick you.

Happy motoring.

-chart-
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I did not see you mention PCV valve. Easy and cheap.

There is a real good reason why there is a specific spark plug gap. Makers have tested and know. Closer gap is easier for the spark to jump, low power, larger gap makes a hotter spark but more likely to not spark at all under age and pressure. Add to that the possiblity of an open spark plug wire. Old school we would check the resistance of each wire. If I bought new ones, I would test them before installing. Easy to assume new is perfect. Experience debunks that thought.

As to codes, most have to see more than one error to set the light. Before they just be "pending". After resetting the light, the system has to have so many starts, (not publised number) to build a history base. about 20 to 30 cold starts to 160 degrees or more. During this period, many errors will not set the light. Many emissions inspections by states will not pass a car that is in the process of building a history after resetting the light. They call it "not ready".

Some used car dealers will reset the light, even if it is not on just to buy that passing of time to get through the 30 day warrenty period. Trick you.

Happy motoring.

-chart-
PCV was replaced as well. I understand about the codes about what ur saying with pending codes, unfortunitly my scanner doesnt show pending codes. Also would my 02 code for b1s1 be the culprit of my somewhat rough idle when cold? Also what does slow responce mean for an 02? Does it mean "time to replace"?
 

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Slow Response

PCV was replaced as well. I understand about the codes about what ur saying with pending codes, unfortunitly my scanner doesnt show pending codes. Also would my 02 code for b1s1 be the culprit of my somewhat rough idle when cold? Also what does slow responce mean for an 02? Does it mean "time to replace"?
Attached is a pic from a good O2.

This is from CarChip recording and set to record every 5 seconds. This is a reference of mine at 95K. You can see it can move from nearly one extreme to the other is 5 seconds or less. My CarChip can check 4 at a time. I have 3 cars and they all look like this.

I have not had a bad one so I do not know what a slow one looks like on the chart.

Slow response means it is still giving a signal, but not fast enough to keep the system in contol. Will mean less than good gas mileage, and trouble down the road. Not "inoperative" yet.

-chart-
 

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A gross vac. leak, such as a gaping hole in a pcv hose, etc. can make it chug and miss to the point of stalling without a high idle while idling and then seem to smooth out at speed. Also, a seeping intake manifold gasket, upper or lower, can leak when cold, then seal upon warming. Im still leaning towards the coil pack failing under load, though. Both conditions, if left long enough, should throw cels. Vac. leak (lean condition) should trigger po171-174. Coil should trigger a po300 series code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
well since it only does it some when starting it cold till it warms up and goes away until the next cold start i would sooner believe a gasket like you said....we have noticed a drop in fuel economy i can tell you that...not much of a drop, but noticable....my scanner shows voltage of the 02 sensors....maybe if i check that one and compare it to one of the others i should be able to see if it is infact "slow" or not. I wish I had a damn smoke machine to check for leaks....Is this something that I should take to a garage for???
 

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I had a vacuum tube broke on the firewall side that I could hear hissing but not see - and that was giving almost the same simptomes like yours.

Remember also, when the car is "cold", most of the sensor inputs are ignored by PCM. Engine runs by "remembered" settings.
So if the O2 sensor is really bad, it won't affect the engine till the water temperature tells the PCM to take it in consideration.
 
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