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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey all. So far I have replaced a ton of parts on this car and yesterday was the first time I took it on a drive on the highway. It has NO power what so ever when you hit the gas! Around town it's been fine, but if you use more than 1/2 throttle it feel like it has absolutely no power. I cant have my wife driving it like this so she'll be using my car(which I dont like;)) till I can fix this problem as I dont feel the car is safe when it cant get out of it's own way.

So far I have replaced the coil, plugs/wires, changed oil and filter(obviously), trans service completed, new brakes front and rear and new tires in the rear(not necessarily important for troubleshooting this issue). Recently I had a CEL that was a P0156, however the car felt gutless before the light was present. Around town and light on the throttle the car seems to accelerate fine with no issues.

From what it sounds to me, it sounds like a massive vacuum leak at the back of the UIM or in that general area. I'm not sure what's back there but when I did the tuneup I left the UIM on, and I did replace the elbow that went to the tube that goes from next to the coil to the intake. I have 3 videos below of what is happening.

This was driving at about 3/4 throttle.


Sorry about the darkness but here you can hear the vacuum leak


Here you can hear how it sucks when the gas is hit



So my question is what's back there that will commonly go bad/break so I can get in there and fix this ASAP? Please let me know so I can get this fixed and my wife can stop using my car :rolleyes2:
 

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some one has posted to have found gasget of Exaust Gas recirculation valve to have leak (EGR), you can have a look in to this.
 

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PCV line elbow that is under the throttle body is a very common part to crack and leak. Big rubber elbow that connects the black hard PCV line to the throttle body.
Fuel filter plugged will make it gutless WFO but run light throttle OK
 

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Did you check your MAF sensor? I own a 2006 taurus that I ruin the MAF sensor on and like you i have no power I ordered a new one online for around 75 bucks. If you think/know that you have a vacuum leak it shouldn't be too hard to find. As for the MAF you can purchase spray o clean them. but mine is too far gone. GOOD LUCK TO YOU FRIEND!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I looked at the PCV elbow and sure enough(like a lot of the vacuum lines) were replaced half assed. I HATE people that half ass things!! So I went out and bought the elbow, and 2 other vac lines that were questonable..... nada, same crap. I can hear the vacuum leak and it sounds like its on the rear of the manifold. I guess it's all in due time till I actually find where the leak is but it's pissing me off that I still cant find it.

The MAF I had already cleaned with the proper cleaner/qtip method(actually was the first thing I did, cause I usually clean them with every other oil change). I just went out there unplugged the MAF and drove around.... running/driving got worse. Plugged it back in and it's "ok". When I had a problem with the MAF in my Tbird, unplugging it cleared the issue so I got a new one and it's been fine. Not with this.

The only thing I'm seeing is the ASSHAT that worked on the car did everything stupidly. Vacuum hoses connected with hose clamps torqued to hell, 1/2 assed everything on the car. I need a good day to do this, not one that's 100* with the heat index.

As said in the other thread(if it helps some) I do also smell some raw exhaust under the hood. I dont have any exhaust leaks that I can hear though. This car is REALLY pulling on my last nerves. I was going to get rid of my tbird and get a bigger vehicle for me as well however after the experience with this car there's no way in hell that I'm buying something else unless it's brand new. Sprry just VERY frustrated after spending as much as I have fixing this car to still not be able to use it properly.
 

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I looked at the PCV elbow and sure enough(like a lot of the vacuum lines) were replaced half assed. I HATE people that half ass things!! So I went out and bought the elbow, and 2 other vac lines that were questonable..... nada, same crap. I can hear the vacuum leak and it sounds like its on the rear of the manifold. I guess it's all in due time till I actually find where the leak is but it's pissing me off that I still cant find it.

The MAF I had already cleaned with the proper cleaner/qtip method(actually was the first thing I did, cause I usually clean them with every other oil change). I just went out there unplugged the MAF and drove around.... running/driving got worse. Plugged it back in and it's "ok". When I had a problem with the MAF in my Tbird, unplugging it cleared the issue so I got a new one and it's been fine. Not with this.

The only thing I'm seeing is the ASSHAT that worked on the car did everything stupidly. Vacuum hoses connected with hose clamps torqued to hell, 1/2 assed everything on the car. I need a good day to do this, not one that's 100* with the heat index.

As said in the other thread(if it helps some) I do also smell some raw exhaust under the hood. I dont have any exhaust leaks that I can hear though. This car is REALLY pulling on my last nerves. I was going to get rid of my tbird and get a bigger vehicle for me as well however after the experience with this car there's no way in hell that I'm buying something else unless it's brand new. Sprry just VERY frustrated after spending as much as I have fixing this car to still not be able to use it properly.
ok here is how to find the leak. a couple of options. a fog machine, dry ice and water. even baby powder. the vac leak will draw in the smoke, fog or powder. smoke or fog is better. baby powder is ghetto but will work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I know how to look for vacuum leaks, however it's just knowing where all the vacuum lines are so I dont miss one, which my luck would be the one that's leaking):rolleyes2: I just have to use the ole 'calibrated eye' to make sure I get them all.
 

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Holy crap something is definitely wrong. That 1-2 shift is WAY off and way too firm/snappy.

The first noise you hear when you hit the gas under the hood sounds like a steam engine locomotive, making it's first chug for power.

Something is either plugged up or the car is compensating for something it is detecting wrong.

I know you said you had no CEL on, but I am curious if you have any pending codes, or shoot even body codes? You need a specialty scanner for those.
ie. Found out on my car that I had 3 "body" codes, 2 relating to the vehicle speed sensor and 1 for passenger side power mirror circuit failure. Body codes won't trip a CEL.
On the header panel on this car, you should have a quasi diagram that shows where all the vacuum lines run. 1 each run off the valve covers over to the accordian intake at minimum, each with 90 degree elbows off the valve cover.

Two things come to mind....DPFE (see how it looks) and removing the EGR to see how the carbon buildup looks.
 

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Dpfe

Holy crap something is definitely wrong. That 1-2 shift is WAY off and way too firm/snappy.

The first noise you hear when you hit the gas under the hood sounds like a steam engine locomotive, making it's first chug for power.

Something is either plugged up or the car is compensating for something it is detecting wrong.

I know you said you had no CEL on, but I am curious if you have any pending codes, or shoot even body codes? You need a specialty scanner for those.
ie. Found out on my car that I had 3 "body" codes, 2 relating to the vehicle speed sensor and 1 for passenger side power mirror circuit failure. Body codes won't trip a CEL.
On the header panel on this car, you should have a quasi diagram that shows where all the vacuum lines run. 1 each run off the valve covers over to the accordian intake at minimum, each with 90 degree elbows off the valve cover.

Two things come to mind....DPFE (see how it looks) and removing the EGR to see how the carbon buildup looks.
I think this is an '01. The DPFE is different that the '03.

For the '01 DOHC engine it is center near the fire wall, 'clip mounted'.
Best to get to it by removing the cowl.
http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/98-...icles/95367-how-replace-add-cabin-filter.html

This is also the easy to get to the coil pack, spark plug wires, and plugs.

At least that is my opinion. Also a good time to clean out the leaves and replace the cabin air filter.

(on the '03 they hid it under the throttle plate, way back on the cylinder.)

I can not speak to the '02 or other years.

I have '01 and '03.

-chart-
 

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Add on to Bill

Holy crap something is definitely wrong. That 1-2 shift is WAY off and way too firm/snappy.

The first noise you hear when you hit the gas under the hood sounds like a steam engine locomotive, making it's first chug for power.

Something is either plugged up or the car is compensating for something it is detecting wrong.

I know you said you had no CEL on, but I am curious if you have any pending codes, or shoot even body codes? You need a specialty scanner for those.
ie. Found out on my car that I had 3 "body" codes, 2 relating to the vehicle speed sensor and 1 for passenger side power mirror circuit failure. Body codes won't trip a CEL.
On the header panel on this car, you should have a quasi diagram that shows where all the vacuum lines run. 1 each run off the valve covers over to the accordian intake at minimum, each with 90 degree elbows off the valve cover.

Two things come to mind....DPFE (see how it looks) and removing the EGR to see how the carbon buildup looks.
You mentioned the hesitation or lag when adding throttle.

In the day of carbs, that was a sure sign of accel pump. That gave a squirt of gas because when you open the throttle plate, the air gets to the engine faster than the gas can accelerate to match it. In modern cars, two things tell the processer to add fuel on a quick open of the throttle. TPS and mass air flow sensor. It sounds like the air goes in with a throttle opening but the processer did not get the message. Then lean on O2 adds fuel late. TPS also messes up the shift speed.

Just my $0.02 worth.

-chart-
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thanks for the replies. I had at it again today, this time looking for vacuum leaks. I sprayed everything I can see and still found nothing that made the engine stumble or anything. Yesterday I did find that the pcv elbow under the manifold was leaking so I replaced that and 2 other lines that were 'questionable'. I've already replaced the coil, plugs, wires, the EGR was replaced by the previous owner. I just got back from a 70 mile trip on the highway to see if it helped or what is going on. Here are my findings:

If I accelerate normally I can get to speed ok and hold speed ok. If I were to give it 1/2 throttle or more it has no power and the shifts become rough because it just does not want to move(I've felt this before in other cars that I have had bad vacuum leaks and when I repaired the leak it shifted fine afterwards). While cruising the highway, keeping a steady speed with constant light throttle, the car feels like it surges. By surges I mean it's cruising fine, then it's as if I let up slightly on the gas, then back on and so on. There's not a rhyme or rhythem to it. It can do it for a mile then be good for 10, then it will do it the next 20 miles, then good for 5. Again, feeling like a vacuum leak.

When I throttle it up lightly as you can hear in the third video, it sucks, then revs up. The sucking noise is coming from the back of the engine, not the airbox. I'm 1/2 tempted to yank the uim this weekend and see what I can find that I cant see, eventhough I have the cowl off. The gaskets are only 12 for a full felpro set and I'm sure it could use them anyway.

The DPFE... is that what's in the rear center of the motor connected to the metal egr pipe that goes to teh rear manifold? If so, that's pretty much where I'm hearing the noise come from but I doused that area with TB cleaner and there was no change in the motor running.

The first vid I posted was before I replaced those vacuum lines that were crap, and it was me giving the car 3/4 throttle. If I slowed into the gas pedal, the car will shift normally with no hard shifts. But if I were to get on it and rev it past 3K it will shift hard and not want to move after it gets to 2500-3K rpm.

Bull geek, I dont have any active or pending codes pulled from my Acrton 'el cheapo' scanner.


EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add is that I was able to get the car to ans cruise at 80mph on the highway running roughly 2700rpm with light throttle. If I got to a long upward hill it would lose speed because of not being able to rev the motor out and gain speed over 1/2 throttle, but not as bad as before I replaced the vacuum lines I did yesterday, so it is pregressively getting better, just not 100% correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well.... at this point I dont know. I took off the drivers and passangers cowl to see if I was missing a vacuum line somewhere. Nothing........ Everything is in good shape other than what I already replaced. Which leads me to my next problem.... I smell exhaust in the engine bay and can feel it on the rear of the engine. I cant tell if it's the manifold gasket leaking or what. At this point I might just cut my losses and get rid of this car. After all I spent fixing this damn thing I cant see spending hundreds more to fix this thing.......
 

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You are so close to having this thing running OK. You've done everything else.

When someone f'd around with the car before you bought it, I wonder if they broke the EGR tube??? When you removed the EGR, did it look packed with carbon?

Thought came to mind....what about the cat being clogged maybe? Usually a car won't go much over 35 mph if that's the case. If it was clogged, after driving it around for awhile, you should be able to look around it at night and under it and see the exhaust potentially glowing.

Removing the O2 sensors would also let you know if it's clogged potentially...check this link out:
How to Tell if Your Catalytic Converter Is Clogged | eHow.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I've just had a BAD BAD day, although it was a gorgeous day out, and am really frustrated.

I thought it could have been a cat but after hearing just what you said(the point of not being able to get the car to any decent speed) hat's not the case. I was able to get to 85 on the highway. I just had to keep it at light throttle and it would go fine, it's just the high rpm stuff where the car just falls on its face.

I figured that tomorrow, later in the day, I will take it for a ride and see if the cats glow or not. I have not noticed it before and I have driven it around and popped the hood on it while it was dark out. I was also thinking of pulling the pre-cat o2 sensor and seeing what happens. As for the EGR, I wouldnt put it past the 'mechanic' that did the work on the car to screw something up. I did find some rust that looks like it was blown up on the valve cover and by the coil. I took a vid and attached it below. I can get a better one but I kept hitting the off button on my phone.

I was thinking to take the UIM off this weekend and see if maybe they cracked it when they put the wrong hose(and a torqued to hell hose clamp) on the pcv tube cause honestly the vacuum sucking sounds like it's coming from the UIM. Gaskets are cheap. Then I was going to do the fuel filter as well as replace the egr gasket and inspect the egr valve. It's just so frustrating coming home from work, hearing the wife complain about the new car, then trying to fix it and getting nowhere. That and when I come home to hear that my children caught lice from the daycare they are at 2 days a week, not out of necessity, then a $300 prescription later KILLS me....(VERY pissed off about that!!):angry:

Anyway... here's the video of what I saw behind the engine. Around the 10 second mark is where you can see the rust that was blown up on the valve cover and tube that goes to that sensor at the back middle of the engine

 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok... so today I did a lot of work to the car. First, I replaced the UIM and LIM gaskets, then i replaced the PCV valve and replaced the rubber hoses associated with that(the hard plastic tube was good), then I replaced the EGR valve gasket. It still hisses, and still has that sucking sound when you hit the gas.

The uim was obviously taken off at one time and the gaskets were not replaced. There was also one bolt broken. I fixed that easily.

The center back one



Broke it down this far..



I took it for a ride afterwards and there was a slight change but nothing big. Then I changed the fuel filter and took it for another drive. It's a little better but there's still something. I know this car HAS to have more balls than that.

I have found that the little vacuum junction box on the drivers side connected to the cowl, is making a lot of the sucking noise. When I remove the vacuum hose that goes from the air box hose to that box the noise stops, but the car runs like complete crap and dies.

At this point I am going to test the TPS, and fuel pressure. Later when it gets dark out I'm going to take it for a run and see if the cats look like they are gettting red hot. I actually told my wife that I might just sell the Tbird and get her something else, and I'll drive this till I can fix it properly. It just gets me nuts thinking that
 

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I have found that the little vacuum junction box on the drivers side connected to the cowl, is making a lot of the sucking noise. When I remove the vacuum hose that goes from the air box hose to that box the noise stops, but the car runs like complete crap and dies.
Why not disconnect and block the supply hose to the vacuum storage box? If the sucking noise goes away and power improves, then you've isolated the problem area. That box is most likely storage for the HVAC controls.
 

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Be carefull with that. That box is called the vacuum distribution box. It also feeds the brake vacuum booster. If you cap it off you will have practically no brakes. Very scary if you are not expecting it. Check the hard plastic line that comes off it and runs along the front edge of the window cowling. Sometimes right behind the manifold it melts. I am thinking you don't have a vacuum leak and it may be an exhaust leak. If it was a vacuum leak that bad you would have a CEL with 171 or 174 or both.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I defiantely have an exhaust leak from the rear piping somewhere. Just havent figured that one out yet.

I just tested the tps and all is well with that. .9v closed and 4.56v fully open with a smooth sweep. The line that goes to the distribution box that is making more of the noise is the one going from the intake piping. Below is a video of the sound and the pipe. You can hear the noise go away when I block it off with my finger. I have not driven around with it blocked off to see what it does.


I'm going to take it for a ride in a few when it gets darker so I can see if the cats glow or not. I have my doubts on it being a cat though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I just took it for a good drive in the dark and did not see the Cats glowing red(or even remotely discolored) so that's good. It still sounds like darth vader and I'm really thinking that there still is a vacuum leak somewhere. I just dont know where. I've replaced/inspected all the lines that were on the motor today. I'll continue checking tomorrow. Sooner or later I'll get it. It is getting better though.
 
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