Slow sluggish starter when car hot. - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Slow sluggish starter when car hot.

Hi TCCA & Forum Members,

My 2000 Duratek has ~81,000 on it. Beginning a couple months ago it began to have sluggish starting (ie. slow cranking), but only after the engine gets hot. The typical scenario is to go out for some local shopping stops. Maybe in the store for an hour, come out and it might start or the starter will be sluggish, stepping on the throttle down and up a bit while slow cranking gets it to start. If we're brave enough to drive to another store, shop for another hour, come out and it we've had what feels like a dead battery, and a jump from someone will get it to turn fast enough to start the car. Once the car cools down, it starts like normal.

I had both the battery (rated 650 CCA and tested 625) and charging system checked at the local garage and they're good.

I've read on TCCA about low fuel pump pressure, and dirty MAF sensors, but in those situations, the starters all cranked good cold or hot.

Other non-TCCA research discusses "heats soak" issues with either the starter or starter related cables. Here's a good one one that if interested:
https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...hot-heat-soak/
and
https://www.hotrodwires.com/classic-...-problems.html

All that said, I'm thinking it might be time for a (rebuilt is fine) starter. The two links I gave above discuss heat soak due to bad cables. This one has a lot of detail on testing the cabling:
https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/H...Starter-System
I've never read here on TCCA about people having problems with starter cables on the old Taurus's. I'm not near any salt (road or beach) and when I change the oil filter I protect the starter from getting an oil bath (no comment on that fubar design there Ford). I've always used spray-on terminal protector and the terminal clamps and wires look ok.

This Youtube:
https://youtu.be/0mKrx-fMi_8
shows you how to easily test for voltage drop on the positive and negative sides of the starter cabling. Very handy.

This Youtuber is helpful to understand the basic parts of the starter and the basic off-vehicle run tests:
https://youtu.be/6x2hIOtBfzE
Here he shows how to do a load test on your battery with a multi-meter, using the wired-in-place starter as the load for the load test (just what we need for a quick starter test, yes!):
https://youtu.be/ab5Kk6JkbsI?t=236
This guy says we don't want to see lower than 10.5v while cranking the starter, but doesn't explain why. This article describes what voltage below 10.5, or above 10.5 while cranking means:
https://www.howacarworks.com/ignitio...tarter-circuit

Sorry about all that research, but it helped me understand some of the starter and circuit basics. Let me ask a question that may be common knowledge to you Taurus gurus: Do these OEM starters just normally fail at around 80,000 miles?

I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Regards . . .
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brcobrem View Post
Hi TCCA & Forum Members,

My 2000 Duratek has ~81,000 on it. Beginning a couple months ago it began to have sluggish starting (ie. slow cranking), but only after the engine gets hot. The typical scenario is to go out for some local shopping stops. Maybe in the store for an hour, come out and it might start or the starter will be sluggish, stepping on the throttle down and up a bit while slow cranking gets it to start. If we're brave enough to drive to another store, shop for another hour, come out and it we've had what feels like a dead battery, and a jump from someone will get it to turn fast enough to start the car. Once the car cools down, it starts like normal.

I had both the battery (rated 650 CCA and tested 625) and charging system checked at the local garage and they're good.

I've read on TCCA about low fuel pump pressure, and dirty MAF sensors, but in those situations, the starters all cranked good cold or hot.

Other non-TCCA research discusses "heats soak" issues with either the starter or starter related cables. Here's a good one one that if interested:
https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...hot-heat-soak/
and
https://www.hotrodwires.com/classic-...-problems.html

All that said, I'm thinking it might be time for a (rebuilt is fine) starter. The two links I gave above discuss heat soak due to bad cables. This one has a lot of detail on testing the cabling:
https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/H...Starter-System
I've never read here on TCCA about people having problems with starter cables on the old Taurus's. I'm not near any salt (road or beach) and when I change the oil filter I protect the starter from getting an oil bath (no comment on that fubar design there Ford). I've always used spray-on terminal protector and the terminal clamps and wires look ok.

This Youtube:
https://youtu.be/0mKrx-fMi_8
shows you how to easily test for voltage drop on the positive and negative sides of the starter cabling. Very handy.

This Youtuber is helpful to understand the basic parts of the starter and the basic off-vehicle run tests:
https://youtu.be/6x2hIOtBfzE
Here he shows how to do a load test on your battery with a multi-meter, using the wired-in-place starter as the load for the load test (just what we need for a quick starter test, yes!):
https://youtu.be/ab5Kk6JkbsI?t=236
This guy says we don't want to see lower than 10.5v while cranking the starter, but doesn't explain why. This article describes what voltage below 10.5, or above 10.5 while cranking means:
https://www.howacarworks.com/ignitio...tarter-circuit

Sorry about all that research, but it helped me understand some of the starter and circuit basics. Let me ask a question that may be common knowledge to you Taurus gurus: Do these OEM starters just normally fail at around 80,000 miles?

I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Regards . . .

DOHC starter on G-4's bullet proof. Same starter used on V-8's. I have had 9 with this starter, no issues. Except one where a stray bolt got stuck on it and shorted the wire, ruined the solenoid.
Pic is JY starter.
I would start with battery cables, grounds and such. Weak connection from the battery end clamp and the wire common.


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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 08:13 PM
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I have never had a starter problem on my five Taurus with a total of just over a million miles. No cable issues, no nothing. I have read a lot of people having issues with the brushes getting packed with carbon dust and oil. Messy oil filter changes by quick lubes and rushing mechanics causes oil to leak all over the brush end of the starter and into the inside. Terrible mess.


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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 06:39 AM
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I also would be checking ground wires, at the body and also the engine block.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kekaye56 View Post
I also would be checking ground wires, at the body and also the engine block.
Stuff hides.


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 07:43 AM
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2x on bad cables. Have had 2 cars in the past with battery cable issues.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repairman54 View Post
2x on bad cables. Have had 2 cars in the past with battery cable issues.
Pic of my test of Lin Cont cable set with clean looking crimp. I used car battery and resistor to put 16A through the cable/clamps. Volt loss 7+X in the crimp as in the length of the wire. I solder my wire to cable end and fix that. My test on the car common 5X more loss in the crimp. Done on 4 Ford products. My '03 wagon has the Lin cable set from the JY. Wire 2 wire gages heaver. Cranks BRISK!


A weak connection gets hot and over time gets weaker and weaker. Ford does not do a good job with cables and grounds.


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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Hi chartmaker, Automender12345, kekaye56 & repairman54,

These were all great replies and well beyond what I expected. You guys/gals are the best!

Looks like I'm going to get some dirt on my multi-meter checking cables this coming week or next. I'll report back when I know more.

Thanks so much : )

Regards . . .
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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P.S. I didn't want to go off-topic on this thread today, so I sewed a new thread over at https://www.taurusclub.com/forum/83-...ml#post3466409

That thread discusses some full-retail pricing I recently received on an A/C repair job, and the full-retail pricing business model. Maybe you'll enjoy that read.

I'll look forward to your thoughts and comments over there if you'd like to chime in on that subject. Please do not comment here on that thread.

Regards . . .

Last edited by Brcobrem; 08-10-2019 at 04:12 PM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 06:34 PM
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You need to do a volt drop test on the batt cables and connections. Trying to measure resistance will tell you nothing. If you dont know how to do a volt drop test, Google it.

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