car is maddening - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Location: Georgia
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Year: 2002
Model: Ford Taurus
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check engine nightmare

I"ve been wrestling with this now for a year. It has cost me thousands.....and I'm at wits end of what to do.

Check engine light is on. OBD error codes PO171 and PO174, engine banks running lean.

Has been on for a year. Been trying to to get it off.

Had it turned off after getting the whole fuel system rechecked and cleaned.....didn't make it out of the driveway when the check engine light came on again.

ANY AND ALL HELP appreciated. Trying to get this car, 2002 DOHC SES with only 48000 miles on it ready for my grand daughter. Runs really good but can't register the car.

There are no vacuum leaks anywhere, and the fuel pressure is excellent.

Here is what has been done.

1. New fuel pump and filter
2. New fuel rail.
3. New coil
4. New plugs
5. New plug wires.
6, All new top end gaskets (intake, valve cover etc)
7. All new vacuum lines
8. new idle position sensor
9. New MAF
10. New fuel injectors....all of them.
11. New rubber elbow for egr
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 01:07 PM
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Who recommended replacing all those parts without doing some troubleshooting?? There is NO WAY a fuel rail goes bad unless it rusts and leaks fuel. Valve cover gaskets would have to be so bad that they would leak a quart of oil a day to generate a vecuum leak that would set lean codes. IAC has ZERO to do with rich or lean codes. It is VERY rare that injectors will cause lean codes.

What are the long term fuel trims on both banks at idle, and with the engine under load, such as 50 mph cruise?

Was the indicated MAF flow rate (lbs/min or grams/s) checked under various operating conditions to verify it was out of range?

Was the PCV valve itself replaced? A stuck open PCV can cause lean codes.

Were both upper AND lower intake gaskets replaced? Intakes checked for damage, cracks, holes?

Have you done a smoke test? My guess is a vac leak you havent found yet.

05 Taurus SEL Duratec - my daily driver
04 Taurus SES Duratec - wifes car - TOTALED
06 Taurus SE Vulcan - wifes new ride
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter car
Toy #1 - 86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner) - LOTS of mods
Toy #2 - 88 Tbird Turbo Coupe - LOTS of mods
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 02:45 PM
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^+1
I would highly recommend a smoke test

It's SHO time!


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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 04:13 PM
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That year and motor is notorious for developing a vacuum leak on the rubber PCV elbow under the intake very near the throttle body.
Other culprits are the elbows that are connected to the top of each valve cover.

I even had a line break off of the evap solenoid on the firewall.

Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for the day. Set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


Last edited by jag1959; 03-02-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:35 PM
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^+1 on the lim gaskets,
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff K View Post
Who recommended replacing all those parts without doing some troubleshooting?? There is NO WAY a fuel rail goes bad unless it rusts and leaks fuel. Valve cover gaskets would have to be so bad that they would leak a quart of oil a day to generate a vecuum leak that would set lean codes. IAC has ZERO to do with rich or lean codes. It is VERY rare that injectors will cause lean codes.

What are the long term fuel trims on both banks at idle, and with the engine under load, such as 50 mph cruise?

Was the indicated MAF flow rate (lbs/min or grams/s) checked under various operating conditions to verify it was out of range?

Was the PCV valve itself replaced? A stuck open PCV can cause lean codes.

Were both upper AND lower intake gaskets replaced? Intakes checked for damage, cracks, holes?

Have you done a smoke test? My guess is a vac leak you havent found yet.


Thank you for the reply.

Allan Vigil Ford did the check on the car. They replaced the fuel pump, AND the fuel rail. In fact, they replaced the fuel pump TWICE. This cost me a lot of money. I went back and asked for a computer check of the car to help track down the issue, and all they did was an OBD II check and wanted $88.00.

Well, I got on this forum and using forscan, and my own OBD II meter started to try and save some money. Just went down the list of things that could be wrong.

I'm not new to cars, but I am new this mess of electric craziness.

The car runs great. It starts right up, and little bit lumpy at idle until it warms up, but then it's great.

Has a new pcv valve and new hoses.

Fact is, based on the recommendation of the FORD dealer above, I replaced the MAF twice. The first one was aftermarket, and the Ford dealer said it needed a FORD part. SO I got one.

I guess I'm just a fool. All I wanted was this car for my Grand daughter.

Problem is, I'm stuck with it. Can't register it, can't sell it with the Check engine light on, and NO one seems to be able to tell me whats wrong.

I finally started working with a local tune up shop, and they are good people and did a complete check of the car for me with a big computer and we went over the car together. They could find nothing wrong. and DIDN"T charge me to two hours of diagnosis time since they found NOTHING.

A smoke test has not been done, but so many cans of carb cleaner has been sprayed in the engine compartment looking for a vac leak that you can now EAT off the engine bay it is so clean. I replaced all the small vac hoses, and all the bigger ones have been taken off and checked and the car run with and without in hope of finding a leak.

Anyone want to make an offer and this turkey? Only 48,000 miles on it. the rear electric windows stopped working about 5 or 6 years ago. Has new switches and the wires in the door are not broken. Another electrical mystery.

Last edited by Commander_47; 03-03-2018 at 09:23 AM.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_47 View Post
Thank you for the reply.

Allan Vigil Ford did the check on the car. They replaced the fuel pump, AND the fuel rail. In fact, they replaced the fuel pump TWICE. This cost me a lot of money. I went back and asked for a computer check of the car to help track down the issue, and all they did was an OBD II check and wanted $88.00.

Well, I got on this forum and using forscan, and my own OBD II meter started to try and save some money. Just went down the list of things that could be wrong.

I'm not new to cars, but I am new this mess of electric craziness.

The car runs great. It starts right up, and little bit lumpy at idle until it warms up, but then it's great.

Has a new pcv valve and new hoses.

Fact is, based on the recommendation of the FORD dealer above, I replaced the MAF twice. The first one was aftermarket, and the Ford dealer said it needed a FORD part. SO I got one.

I guess I'm just a fool. All I wanted was this car for my Grand daughter.

Problem is, I'm stuck with it. Can't register it, can't sell it with the Check engine light on, and NO one seems to be able to tell me whats wrong.

I finally started working with a local tune up shop, and they are good people and did a complete check of the car for me with a big computer and we went over the car together. They could find nothing wrong. and DIDN"T charge me to two hours of diagnosis time since they found NOTHING.

A smoke test has not been done, but so many cans of carb cleaner has been sprayed in the engine compartment looking for a vac leak that you can now EAT off the engine bay it is so clean. I replaced all the small vac hoses, and all the bigger ones have been taken off and checked and the car run with and without in hope of finding a leak.

Anyone want to make an offer and this turkey? Only 48,000 miles on it. the rear electric windows stopped working about 5 or 6 years ago. Has new switches and the wires in the door are not broken. Another electrical mystery.
1. Door wires/switches. See pic, common, all of my last 3 g-4 Bulls had wires break. Not easy fix but cheap.
2. With any lean codes, first check your long term trims at idle and at speed. Fuel starvation as in filter, fuel pump module, injectors will show lean/high + long term trims under power but likely not at idle.
High + long term trims at idle but not under power is a vacuum leak. The fresh, clean, metered air from the accordion to the valve covers are as important as the vacuum. Fresh air to the crankcase must be metered and fed through these hoses. Leaking oil filler or any opening to the crankcase/valve covers makes the metering wrong. (LEAN)

-chart-
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Wow......and I do mean.....wow.

I'm not sure.....but I believe I may have found the lean mixture problem........and if this is the case....it's got to be up there with either the dumbest home mechanic on the planet....or the the wildest thing ever.

So I'm under the hood today, going over the evap canister vac hoses and replacing them. Then, just for the heck of it, I decided to check the gaskets on the new IAC and TPS. This was prompted by the posts above.

I took off the new IAC, checked for power and couldn't find a fault.....but I noticed that there were two gaskets on it. One was the rubber O ring that came stock, the other was the paper gasket that came with the replacement IAC. ???????? Two gaskets? Could this possibly be gumming up the works, and yet NOT causing an air leak?

Well, I removed the paper gasket, put it back together with just the O ring.......and guess what......NO CODES!!!!

I GOT A DTC READING OF NO CODES!!!!!

I"m numb. So now ..... if all goes well. I should pass emissions on Monday.

If that is the case.....those rear windows are next.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_47 View Post
Wow......and I do mean.....wow.

I'm not sure.....but I believe I may have found the lean mixture problem........and if this is the case....it's got to be up there with either the dumbest home mechanic on the planet....or the the wildest thing ever.

So I'm under the hood today, going over the evap canister vac hoses and replacing them. Then, just for the heck of it, I decided to check the gaskets on the new IAC and TPS. This was prompted by the posts above.

I took off the new IAC, checked for power and couldn't find a fault.....but I noticed that there were two gaskets on it. One was the rubber O ring that came stock, the other was the paper gasket that came with the replacement IAC. ???????? Two gaskets? Could this possibly be gumming up the works, and yet NOT causing an air leak?

Well, I removed the paper gasket, put it back together with just the O ring.......and guess what......NO CODES!!!!

I GOT A DTC READING OF NO CODES!!!!!

I"m numb. So now ..... if all goes well. I should pass emissions on Monday.

If that is the case.....those rear windows are next.
Depending on the state, emissions cannot be tested until "ready for inspection" drive cycle is done.

OBD-II Monitor Exercised Drive Cycle Procedure
Drive Cycle Preparation Car overnight cool, gas tank to 3/4th.
1. Idle vehicle for 15 seconds.
2 Drive at (40 MPH) until ECT is at least (170 F). (engine coolant temp).
3. Is Inlet Air Temp within (40 to 100 F)? If not STOP HERE.
HEGO
4. Cruise at (40 MPH) for Up To 4 minutes. Executes the HEGO monitor.
EVAP
5 Cruise at (45 to 65 MPH) for 10 minutes (avoid sharp turns and hills) Gas tank to full.
Catalyst
6. Drive in stop and go traffic conditions. Include five different constant cruise speeds, ranging from (25 to 45 MPH) over a 10 minute period. Executes the Catalyst Monitor.
EGR
7. From a stop, accelerate to (45 MPH) at to throttle. Repeat 3 times. Executes the EGR Monitor.
SEC AIR/CCM
(Engine)
8. Bring the vehicle to a stop. Idle with transmission in drive for 2 minutes. Executes the ISC portion of the CCM.
CCM (Trans Auto)
9. From a stop and in overdrive, moderately accelerate to (50 MPH) and cruise for at least 15 seconds. Stop vehicle and repeat without overdrive to (40 MPH) cruising for at least 30 seconds. While at (40 MPH), activate overdrive and accelerate to (50 MPH) and cruise for at least 15 seconds. Stop for at least 20 seconds and repeat step 9 five times. Executes the transmission portion of the CCM.
Misfire&Fuel Monitors
10. From a stop, accelerate to (65 MPH). Decelerate at closed throttle until (40 MPH) (no brakes). Repeat this 3 times. Allows learning for the misfire monitor.
-chart-
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 05:30 PM
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Yes, the double gasketed IAC could cause a big enough vac leak to set the lean codes. It doesnt take much of a vac leak to set lean codes. Large vac leaks will set pre cat O2 sensor low output voltage codes (P0131 / 1035 / 1131 / 1135 or something like that..... dont remember off the top of my head).

05 Taurus SEL Duratec - my daily driver
04 Taurus SES Duratec - wifes car - TOTALED
06 Taurus SE Vulcan - wifes new ride
95 Taurus GL Vulcan winter car
Toy #1 - 86 Tbird 5.0 (original owner) - LOTS of mods
Toy #2 - 88 Tbird Turbo Coupe - LOTS of mods
67 Honda 450 Super Sport - completely customized
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