Rough idle and stalling. Randomly. Need input please. - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-19-2019, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Rough idle and stalling. Randomly. Need input please.

It's time I make a post to try to figure out what is going on with my wife's 2005 Mercury Sable. I'm at the point where I am afraid I am throwing money at it and don't want to go further down that rabbit hole unless necessary.

(Quote from another post I made asking questions about a vacuum line) For a little bit of background information: She has had the car for a few years now but recently started throwing codes P0302 & P0316. If I clear the codes it doesn't throw them again unless it's been sitting, usually after sitting all weekend. You can feel it misfiring and running rough at cold start but once it warms up the misfiring goes away and runs/accelerates very smoothly. I had to change the valve cover gaskets so I also replaced the coils, plugs, intake manifold gaskets and cleaned the EGR while everything was apart thinking that would solve the problem. Everything runs smoother than before, almost like new, but after sitting it's the same problem, 302 & 316.)

Fast forward to the last few weeks it was running rough randomly. Usually when I first start it up after coming out of a store. Yesterday I got a code P0171, which I read was Fuel Trim System Lean Bank 1. Cleaned the MAF with MAF cleaner. Reinstalled the MAF this morning and the car started fine. We drove to the gas station and it started fine afterword, but the idle was a little rough. Went to the grocery store on our way home and when we came out and started the car the idle was very rough. If I gave it any gas it would die. It would start back up but idle really roughly and die. I let it sit for about ten minutes then started it again to find that it had a rough idle but would run. Drove home fine with no CEL on at all.

I really figured with it running that rough and stalling it would have thrown a CEL for something but no. I could not find any visible vacuum leaks but plan to spray some MAF cleaner around once the rain stops. My next step was going to be ordering new fuel injectors but I wanted to hear some feedback before I keep throwing money at it. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-19-2019, 02:17 PM
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How old is the battery and what is the voltage BEFORE starting the car in the am?
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-19-2019, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kekaye56 View Post
How old is the battery and what is the voltage BEFORE starting the car in the am?
The battery is less than a year old, but I will check the voltage after it has sat overnight and report back.

I'm reading another post about the idle air control valve now. Starting to wonder if that might be a possibility.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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Did you replace uim & lim gaskets? How's the pcv valve & its hose assy?

Last edited by sheila; 06-19-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-20-2019, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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I replaced the upper but not the lower because I never removed the lower intake manifold when I did the valve covers.

The voltage was at 12.48 this morning. I cleaned the IAC valve this morning, it was a little bit dirty but not too bad. The plunger moves smoothly.

As soon as I started it CEL came on. Code P2195. Cleared it to make sure it wasn't a fluke but a quick five minute drive and it came right back.

Looks like the O2 sensor is no good, this indicates bank one position one correct? That's the one between the rear valve cover and the firewall right? I have fused vertebrae in my neck from a previous surgery and really am not looking forward to pulling the upper intake manifold again.

Edit: I just noticed that it pushed power steering fluid out of the reservoir for some reason during this short drive.

Last edited by Tanshin; 06-20-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-20-2019, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Cleaned up the power steering fluid and took it for another ride. It didn't push any fluid out of the reservoir so I think that is just from when I turned the wheel while it wasn't running the other day when I was stuck in the parking lot of the grocery store.

It was running a little rough though and Code P2195 came back so no more running it until I change the O2 sensor. I think I am going to order the fuel injectors since I have to take the UIM off again anyway. I just hope that it fixes the problem.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-20-2019, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanshin View Post
Cleaned up the power steering fluid and took it for another ride. It didn't push any fluid out of the reservoir so I think that is just from when I turned the wheel while it wasn't running the other day when I was stuck in the parking lot of the grocery store.

It was running a little rough though and Code P2195 came back so no more running it until I change the O2 sensor. I think I am going to order the fuel injectors since I have to take the UIM off again anyway. I just hope that it fixes the problem.
P2195 Cause
  • Frayed oxygen sensor circuit wiring/connectors
  • Faulty heated oxygen sensor bank 1
  • Malfunctioning fuel injector
  • Vacuum leaks
  • Fuel pressure too high/low
From the internet quote.


-chart-
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-20-2019, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chartmaker View Post

P2195 Cause
  • Frayed oxygen sensor circuit wiring/connectors
  • Faulty heated oxygen sensor bank 1
  • Malfunctioning fuel injector
  • Vacuum leaks
  • Fuel pressure too high/low
From the internet quote.


-chart-
Thanks. Too many things are suggesting that the injectors could be the culprit, so they are going to be changed along with the O2 sensor. I don't know how old they are anyway so it's just a good idea.

If the fuel rail pressure is reading within the proper range via obd2 can I assume that the fuel pump is okay?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Unread 06-20-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanshin View Post
Thanks. Too many things are suggesting that the injectors could be the culprit, so they are going to be changed along with the O2 sensor. I don't know how old they are anyway so it's just a good idea.

If the fuel rail pressure is reading within the proper range via obd2 can I assume that the fuel pump is okay?
Fuel pump issue will cause both banks to have the same problem.


-chart-
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Unread 07-02-2019, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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So, I am getting frustrated.

Removed the UIM again. Replaced the O2 sensor and all six injectors. Drove it for a week now.

Results: CEL for the O2 sensor has not come back. In fact no new CEL since this last service. Twice now though I have had it drop RPM's really low and almost stall. Once was just after putting everything back together on the third start, RPM's dropped low for about two seconds felt like it was running out of fuel then cleared up and idled fine so I thought maybe just a fluke. Then again yesterday after coming out of a shop. Started fine then RPM's dropped really low felt like it was going to stall for about three seconds or so then back to normal (weather was hot and dry at the time). In between all of this everything felt pretty good. No CEL still.

It's the random nature of it that is driving me nuts. If it was a vacuum leak I would imagine it would do it all the time, not just randomly then back to normal. I could be wrong though as it would be far from the first time.

I screen captured a few LTFT from the OBDII app on my phone at idle and around 2500 RPM and noticed bank one and bank two are a bit different but I don't know what they should be at when running properly. What should my RPM's be at idle?

So far I have:
Replaced: Injectors, Ignition Coils, Spark Plugs, EGR Pressure Feedback Sensor (Plastic hose connections broke), EGR gaskets, UIM gaskets, PCV valve, Fuel Filter and probably more that I am forgetting

Cleaned: EGR, MAF, Throttle Body and IAC

I also sprayed MAF cleaner all around the engine bay while at idle with no changes in RPM that I could notice.
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Last edited by Tanshin; 07-02-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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