Trouble refilling coolant system - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-27-2017, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Trouble refilling coolant system

I had to replace the thermostat, 1998 Ford Taurus, Duratec 24Valve motor, two tubes coming out of the coolant tank, one out of the bottom. I changed the thermostat, checked it in boiling water, it would not open. Purchased new one, fit fine, new o-ring. I filled the system through the tank, and found the car did not take as much coolant as I took out. I then mounted the front end on ramps, and proceeded to "burp" the car. Much air came out. I added a lot of antifreeze. There is still air in there, and I believe it is the heater core. The anti-freeze looked new that I removed. I made a bottle to attach to the top of the coolant tank to act as an overflow, and raise the highest point. More air came out. Now, if I drive the car, the temp starts going up. The little hose, looking from the front to the back of the car, on the top right of the coolant tank is pushing out coolant, and I have no Heat. I am assuming that the heater core has air in it. By doing the above methods, it seems, the I would be losing a lot of new coolant, and nothing explains the Heater core, no Heat situation. I am going to burp the car today again and pinch off the heater by pass tube to try and force coolant through there. I may install a coolant flush there, and flush the motor from that point, forcing the water through the heater core. I have not found a definitive complete set of instructions on how to do this, from start to finish, and all this tube removal allows air back into the system. My bad for not understanding, when I called a reputable local radiator guy I know, he told me that he would just jack up those nose as high as I could, and "burp" the car again. I feel like I am 75% there, which is not good enough. Fingers crossed. This is the only car I have ever owned that has this issue. Putting a thermostat on the bottom is the stupidest thing I have ever seen, on an otherwise really nice car. Intelligent Comments are most appreciated. I will pinch off the bottom of the coolant tank to see of more air comes out. I don't see how this makes sense. but it's easy enough to try. I'm not disconnecting any hoses that will allow coolant back in. Three shops have said these cars are a Pain in the A** to get air out of, and the all burp them. Forget the dealership, they don't want to touch anything over 10 years old. This car only has 150K miles on it. p.s. I let it idle, with the cap on for 1 hour, and it ran perfectly fine, no overheating, it just sat there idling? . . . Again, intelligent comments most appreciated. I cannot form paragraphs for some reason?

Last edited by jag1959; 05-27-2017 at 09:58 AM. Reason: moved to it's own thread
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-27-2017, 10:28 AM
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Fwiw, I've had 4 '98 tecs and after a coolant change/flush, t-stat r&r, etc. all I've ever done is button everything up, fill the degas tank to the top, squeeze any accessible coolant hoses while idling to operating temp. and top off as needed. Check it cold the next morning and adjust as necessary. Never have had an air (pocket) problem. As the name implies, the "de-gas" tank does its job automatically.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-27-2017, 11:54 AM
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^+1
Same here, sometimes that 'top off as needed' was over the course of a couple of cycles but that's all that was ever needed
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-27-2017, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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I have found from the local mechanics that they all jack up the cars (these in particular) to burp them. This car could cook meat in the Winter, and store a side a beef in the Summer, the climate control works so well. Sitting over night, it sucked out most of the coolant in the coolant tank, and I put my bottle on top, filled, it, and it sucked it up. Many bubbles came out. I think it's getting close, but still no heat!! This bothers me. The coolant was fine, no debris, and I had fantastic heat before. One stupid thermostat caused this. What a dumb place to put a Thermostat! I may modify this system. Tomorrow I will go under and see if there is something I can do to get water to run through the heater core. I had a feeling people would post, "I filled it, and never had a problem". I suffer from Murphy's law. I will end this thread with the final outcome.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 09:38 AM
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^+1. Coolant should be running through the heater core at all times.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 11:50 AM
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FYI, thermostat is "at the bottom" because the Tec has a reverse flow cooling system, just like nearly all modern engines. Ford engineers put it "at the bottom" because it needs to be there, not to aggravate the owners.

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff K View Post
FYI, thermostat is "at the bottom" because the Tec has a reverse flow cooling system, just like nearly all modern engines. Ford engineers put it "at the bottom" because it needs to be there, not to aggravate the owners.
The OHC engines usually treat cooling as 2 separate systems, one on each bank with the flow in and out equally both sides. And the stat is a 3 way blend system so really cold coolant from the rad does not flow quickly into the engine, just blend the cold with the warm.

Of course the '98 had the front water pump and the really bad hose that rusts out from the pump to the stat hidden between the block and fans. I did a hose on '98 and it was a real pain. The Lin Cont uses the same idea, pump in front and stat bolted to the block hidden down there somewhere.

The 3 way stat/blending makes them warm up quick, hold temp on cold day near perfect. With the '01 they moved the pump to the back and stat to a visible location. The '00 was a hybrid as I remember.

At least they did not put the pump inside the engine like some others.

But back in the day of flat heads, they had 2 water pumps, 2 stats.

-chart-
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-28-2017, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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@sheila". Coolant should be running through the heater core at all times.". Yeah, but it's not. No heat in car. Thanks for the input, but none if it helped.

As far as why Ford put it there, it's the only car I have ever worked on, and I have worked and owned far too many too remember, that has a thermostat on the bottom. A properly designed system would not have to worry about putting too much cold water into the system. That's what the thermostat is supposed to do, with a properly sized radiator, and fans. I specialize in Mercedes Benz's mostly, and I've never seen such bad engineering. There is air in the line somewhere, I can hear it gurgling, and I get no Heat from a previously, unit the thermostat went bad, a heater that would cook you. The removed coolant looked new. This car was always maintained by my Mom.

I am not a "fanboy" of any car, they are machines, with their systems, some good, some not so good. There is air in the system. I guess I will have to drain a start again.

I wanted to install a flush kit. Does anywhere know where to put one of those "T's" in the system? I have"burped" much air out the car. The only thing left to think is I may be getting pressure from a bad head gasket, an internal leak, though there is no discoloration and the pressure does not reach that high, and one would thing this would be constant. It only overheats when pressurized. I idled the car for 1/2 half hour, and it runs just under the center of the Temp gauge, like it did before. Only putting the cap back on causes things to change, and I still get to heat no matter what. I can hear the gurgling and the thermostat snap open and closed, as if there were steam down there. Especially after shutting off. Massaging the hoses does nothing, but I can feel the air in there. Any picture showing where to put a "T" or where they be a bleed valve would be most helpful. Please take no comments as pejorative of Ford, bad engineering by any company is bad engineering. I've seen it in every model car I have ever worked on. I have blueprinted too many engines.

I am going to try and find and pinch of the heater core bypass core, hopefully this will fix it.

If not, I will drain and start all over again. Nothing else left to do.

Last edited by zathros; 05-29-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-29-2017, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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Car swallowed the whole coolant tank over night. The oil is still clean and it doesn't blow any smoke. I can still feel bubbling in the tubes.

The Thermostat "snaps" open and shut. I have not see this before. I put it in the same way the old one came out, and located it it as it has a location notch. Something odd about this, still no heat! I have a bottle in the coolant housing about a foot tall, with a 8" diameter, it has the top open to allow the car to drink, it fits snug into the opening. It is overfilled, that way if it decides to drink the whole tank, maybe this extra bit will get more bubbles out. Some pretty big ones came out today.

I am thinking about changing the water pump after seeing how bad it corrodes. I don't know why there isn't a composite one available if this is such a problem. The car worked perfectly fine before the Thermostat gave out. I put 2000 miles on it in 3 days without so much as a hiccup.

The car is lifted pretty high up front, the lowest point is the heater core. I'll replace the water pump, but be pissed if it's fine. I have not seen any pictures of this cars heater core lines on this or any other forum. I thought it had a bypass hose but could not find one either from the top or bottom. Just the two hoses that go into there, and my arms are way to muscular to get up into there.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-30-2017, 09:38 AM
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Fwiw, '98 tecs had a problem with h2o pumps and cracked plastic impellers. As you found out, no heater core bypass hose on gen3 tecs, only on the Vulcan engine. To flush the heater core separately, I trace back the 2 core hoses from the firewall several feet to an accessible disconnect point and flush/reverse flush with a garden hose. Some also use compressed air, Prestone Super Cleaner, CLR, etc. Other option is to replace the core...

Last edited by sheila; 05-30-2017 at 10:04 AM.
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