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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 4 wheel disc brakes View Post
Voltages are good and consistent regarding charging at steady 14volts.
Resting battery voltage should be 12.6 volts. This could be meter error or a battery cell starting to fail.
Cell voltages can be checked by placing the probes into the cells if the caps are removable. 2.1 volts is normal for a charged battery. The + post to cell and - post to cell should add up to the same as the others. Variation more than 0.05 volts is a cell going bad.
Your bonus readings on AC volts seem high. There should be zero AC volts at battery with the engine off though. This is likely a meter problem since a 28 volt AC voltage on a 12 volt battery is way out of range v

As mentioned in another post, the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm can fail and increase fuel pressure.
Data says, the fuel pressure is doing what the PCM tells it to do. The FPM and the sensor are slaves to the PCM. Chance of sensor or FPM remote at best. If the PCM calls for higner than than expected, then there is a reason.

Any concerns about voltage should begin with wire maint. All grounds need to be removed ,cleaned, and re-seated. You could test by measrueing volts from the neg bat post to the: engine block, fender, firewall common post. Any over 100mv represent issues. Similar pos post to the mega fuse.

Visual is a clue as in the pic from the JY. But lots of bad stuff hide in plain sight. Common things in the JY for good cars being donors. Bat cables, coilpacks cracked and bulging. Oil in the air cleaner etc.

-chart-

Last edited by chartmaker; 06-17-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 wheel disc brakes View Post
Voltages are good and consistent regarding charging at steady 14volts.
Resting battery voltage should be 12.6 volts. This could be meter error or a battery cell starting to fail.
Cell voltages can be checked by placing the probes into the cells if the caps are removable. 2.1 volts is normal for a charged battery. The + post to cell and - post to cell should add up to the same as the others. Variation more than 0.05 volts is a cell going bad.
Your bonus readings on AC volts seem high. There should be zero AC volts at battery with the engine off though. This is likely a meter problem since a 28 volt AC voltage on a 12 volt battery is way out of range v

As mentioned in another post, the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm can fail and increase fuel pressure.
The AC reading was because the meter doesnt do root mean square calculation, its too cheap. Found that out after some research.

And after some inspection I found a few spots on the battery cables where the insulation is stripped back? Namely the mega to the positive post (it doesnt touch anything along the way) and the auxillary ground from the starter bracket to the negative post. Its stripped right near the trans case. Would this cause problems? I already replaced the engine to firewall ground and couldnt find any meaningful voltage drops from the looks of it. Ill check the cell voltage and see if anything stands out.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2016, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ice445 View Post
The AC reading was because the meter doesnt do root mean square calculation, its too cheap. Found that out after some research.

And after some inspection I found a few spots on the battery cables where the insulation is stripped back? Namely the mega to the positive post (it doesnt touch anything along the way) and the auxillary ground from the starter bracket to the negative post. Its stripped right near the trans case. Would this cause problems? I already replaced the engine to firewall ground and couldnt find any meaningful voltage drops from the looks of it. Ill check the cell voltage and see if anything stands out.
Battery cable/wiring check
This should take about 5-10 minutes.
Tools. Digital VM, range 200MV to 2.0V.
Hood open.
  1. Key on (not start) Blower on high, lights high beam.
  2. Probe leads, Pos battery post to mega fuse (or older cars use post on fuse box) Not the cable ends, but, post to post to bridge the cable.
  3. Volts range ~100 mv or less. ( 0.10V or less)
  4. Neg bat post to engine metal 50 mv or less.
  5. Neg bat post to body metal 100 mv or less.
On the pos side, high reading = bad cable, or ends not good connection.
On the body ground (fender) high reading = bad cable or ends not good connection.
If you have a high number, then measure one step at a time; that is post to clamp, clamp to wire, wire to eyelet, eyelet to fender etc. Find the weak connection, and fix it.
On the negative side, the ground is split with one to the body, one to the engine block and then the ground strap from the block to the body near the passenger side firewall. Thus the body is double grounded. You need both. Engine strap to firewall is important as this is the ground to the PCM.
Ground strap test. Key off . Remove the battery ground to the fender from the fender. Turn HL on high beam. They should light normal. If not the ground strap from the block to the firewall/PCM post is bad. Clean the fender where the neg cable bolts on, put the ground cable back. Fix the ground strap. The ground strap keeps the PCM and engine block/Alt at the same ground level. When the engine is running, the negative current path is mostly engine block-ground stap to the body, bat cable to fender is secondary.
Alternate test of ground strap: HL high, blower max, start engeine and idle in N.
Test volts engine block or Alt to the body common post for the ground strap/PCM. Max 75 mv.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chartmaker View Post
Battery cable/wiring check
This should take about 5-10 minutes.
Tools. Digital VM, range 200MV to 2.0V.
Hood open.
  1. Key on (not start) Blower on high, lights high beam.
  2. Probe leads, Pos battery post to mega fuse (or older cars use post on fuse box) Not the cable ends, but, post to post to bridge the cable.
  3. Volts range ~100 mv or less. ( 0.10V or less)
  4. Neg bat post to engine metal 50 mv or less.
  5. Neg bat post to body metal 100 mv or less.
On the pos side, high reading = bad cable, or ends not good connection.
On the body ground (fender) high reading = bad cable or ends not good connection.
If you have a high number, then measure one step at a time; that is post to clamp, clamp to wire, wire to eyelet, eyelet to fender etc. Find the weak connection, and fix it.
On the negative side, the ground is split with one to the body, one to the engine block and then the ground strap from the block to the body near the passenger side firewall. Thus the body is double grounded. You need both. Engine strap to firewall is important as this is the ground to the PCM.
Ground strap test. Key off . Remove the battery ground to the fender from the fender. Turn HL on high beam. They should light normal. If not the ground strap from the block to the firewall/PCM post is bad. Clean the fender where the neg cable bolts on, put the ground cable back. Fix the ground strap. The ground strap keeps the PCM and engine block/Alt at the same ground level. When the engine is running, the negative current path is mostly engine block-ground stap to the body, bat cable to fender is secondary.
Alternate test of ground strap: HL high, blower max, start engeine and idle in N.
Test volts engine block or Alt to the body common post for the ground strap/PCM. Max 75 mv.
So I did the tests again. Mega fuse to positive battery post was 50mv. Negative post to engine seemed to alternate between 0 and 26mv. Same with neg post to body.

However, the engine to the ground post at the firewall was giving me around 80mv depending on where exactly I measured. Interesting. I already replaced the strap ages ago with one that I made out of 1/0 wire. I may have made them wrong, however. I didn't have the greatest tool access back then.


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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 07:31 AM
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Negative to engine looks like it's bad. I had fluctuating readings on the battery cable tracking down a erratic crank issue on my son's car.
Large size battery cables should have rock solid readings. Cables fixed the son's car which is a '05 24v

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repairman54 View Post
Negative to engine looks like it's bad. I had fluctuating readings on the battery cable tracking down a erratic crank issue on my son's car.
Large size battery cables should have rock solid readings. Cables fixed the son's car which is a '05 24v
Really have to take things apart to find corrosion and bad connections. Common maint procedure. I prefer household ammonia for cleaning acid corrosion.

-chart-

Last edited by chartmaker; 06-17-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repairman54 View Post
Negative to engine looks like it's bad. I had fluctuating readings on the battery cable tracking down a erratic crank issue on my son's car.
Large size battery cables should have rock solid readings. Cables fixed the son's car which is a '05 24v
What cables did you use? I have an opportunity to buy new OEM cables, or make my own out of 6 gauge tinned copper wire. I'm going to buy a real crimping tool this time around if I make my own, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chartmaker View Post
Really have to take things apart to find corrosion and bad connections. Common maint procedure. I prefer household ammonia for cleaning acid corrosion.

-chart-
Yeah, I can see some corrosion on a few of the wires. I think I'm going to just replace them all and see where I'm at, since the terminals are getting pretty nasty as well.


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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 06:26 PM
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What cables did you use? I have an opportunity to buy new OEM cables, or make my own out of 6 gauge tinned copper wire. I'm going to buy a real crimping tool this time around if I make my own, however.



Yeah, I can see some corrosion on a few of the wires. I think I'm going to just replace them all and see where I'm at, since the terminals are getting pretty nasty as well.
OEM cables #6 wire. It is adequate. See pic, all my ford prod have weak connection at the battery end crimp. Up to 7 times more volt loss at the crimp as in the length of the wire. I soldered all mine, 50/50 wire solder and liquid flux, using a propane tourch. In the pic, I put a towel over the battery and a board over that so I could use the vice to hold and not risk a short. Holding the insulation keeps it from getting too hot. After solder, no more than 1mv drop at the crimp vs 75mv before with the blower and HL on.

I got a good set of Lin Cont wires at the JY and my wagon has that, soldered crimps now. Lin used 2 wire sizes larger = ~60% more capacity.

I used household ammonia to clean the joints before solder, and after to kill the effect of the acid flux. All mine also have a secondary ground from the neg clamp to the fender, #10 soldered eyelets.

Pic my volts loss across the cables with blower on high, HL on high, key on engine off.

-chart-

Last edited by chartmaker; 06-17-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chartmaker View Post
OEM cables #6 wire. It is adequate. See pic, all my ford prod have weak connection at the battery end crimp. Up to 7 times more volt loss at the crimp as in the length of the wire. I soldered all mine, 50/50 wire solder and liquid flux, using a propane tourch. In the pic, I put a towel over the battery and a board over that so I could use the vice to hold and not risk a short. Holding the insulation keeps it from getting too hot. After solder, no more than 1mv drop at the crimp vs 75mv before with the blower and HL on.

I got a good set of Lin Cont wires at the JY and my wagon has that, soldered crimps now. Lin used 2 wire sizes larger = ~60% more capacity.

I used household ammonia to clean the joints before solder, and after to kill the effect of the acid flux. All mine also have a secondary ground from the neg clamp to the fender, #10 soldered eyelets.

Pic my volts loss across the cables with blower on high, HL on high, key on engine off.

-chart-
So you just cleaned up and soldered the factory wires? Interesting. I'll have to think about how I want to do this. I was going to pick up a hydraulic crimper regardless, but I might solder it afterwards anyway just to be safe.


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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ice445 View Post
So you just cleaned up and soldered the factory wires? Interesting. I'll have to think about how I want to do this. I was going to pick up a hydraulic crimper regardless, but I might solder it afterwards anyway just to be safe.
If I were doing my own ends, I would use the lead clamp as in the pic (Walmart) and fill the hole with 50/50 solder melted. Lead melts ~625F and that solder ~400F so easy to do with a toruch. I would use soldering paste like that used on copper pipe, stick the two wires into the molten solder, quench with water spray.

But I am paranoid.

-chart-
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Last edited by chartmaker; 06-17-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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