I have a crazy No Start/ Very Hard Start Issue, and Im totally lost!!!! - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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I have a crazy No Start/ Very Hard Start Issue, and Im totally lost!!!!

OK my cousin came to me with few bucks to get some tires for his taurus, luckily I had a set he could have. but when I picked up the car I noticed it was missing and of course the check engine light was on and flashing. so I had it towed to my house(I know flashing light is when converter damage is happening). upon inspecting it with my cheap scan tool he had mutliple misfires so I started pulling plug wires at the coil one by one to see if I had one that made no change, and I did, cylinder 1 and 5, no change when the wire was pulled. I then pulled the plugs notice one the ceramic broke dropped covering the spark area(nothing broke off though luckily) so I put a new set of autolite double platinums(I believe at .040) and a set of wires. tried to crank it up and it would not start.... triple checked the firing order on the coil and positions of each cylinder and everything was right, sprayed some either and cranked it again, heard a pop and had a small engine fire melted the snorkel... So I then realized there was some more issues at hand.. did a compression test and sure enough 1 and 5 were low, pulled the reed valve out of the comp tester and put air in the cylinders and found 2 leaking intake valves... got all that fix now im stuck with a now start still.. i am getting fuel and getting spark but its not starting and the few times it does start its running rough. to me it seems like the ignition timing is too far advanced... Why... because when you are cranking it it seems to hit a hard spot almost like it doesn't make it to top dead center ready to fire then before it pops then forces the engine backward or slowing the starter drastically and not letting it start right. right out the bat I plugged up my scan tool and according to it the computer is advancing timing 10 degrees during starting. I'm not 100% sure what its supposed to be at during cranking but I would assume 0 if not retarded to help rotate the engine, but its at 10. the reason other reason I suspect it has something to do with the timing is, if I Unplug the crank sensor(disables fuel and spark) the engine turns over flawlessly fast and no hickups, but as soon as spark is reintroduced it slows down the cranking and it hits those hard spots, it hits hard too like you can hear the flywheel ring very sketchy... I pulled the cam sensor out to see if it was damaged and it looks fine so I marked the position and tried turning it a little both ways and it seemed to help for a second then start hitting the hard spot again.. but again unplug the coil pack or crank sensor and it spins like butter.

is there any way to test some of these sensors?(I have a voltmeter, but no oscilloscope) I tried adjusting the tps and broke it(not adjustable, lol) according to the scan tool it was at 17.9 throttle, so I though it needed to be adjusted. anyway its at the right voltage according to other forum suggestions. so that's a+ now. but still no start, tried a junkyard MASS AIR (since the snorkel caught fire, assumed maybe it damaged the MAF) but still no start...

Still hitting the hard spot with the ignition hooked up, I'm scared to use starting fluid as that's what popped and caused my little fire, lol any Ideas would be greatly appreciated
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 06:06 PM
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need pics of the fire.
how did you fix leaky valves?
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 06:10 PM
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It would be easier if you took your time next time when posting, please. I made it through your wall of text, most people wouldn't bother going past the first line.

What were ALL the codes it listed when you checked it?

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 06:28 PM
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you need one of these ...

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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the machine shop found the head with the bad valves also had a hairline crack between exhaust and the spark plug on #5 after cutting the seats so that head was replaced with a used head of the same casting and then both heads received a valve job(valves and seats ground then lapped) and a resurfacing. and everything was put together with a felpro head gasket kit. all the parts were meticulously cleaned prior to their installation, including the injectors all held pressure none leaked, and all had decent spray patterns(I cleaned them individually with fuel injection cleaner pumped through a hose and pulsed by hand, it cleared some of the sideways spray patterns so all have good patterns now)

the engine fire was contained by the intake snorkel, as soon as I saw it my extinguisher was used, so if it damaged anything it would be the MAF but a used replacement didn't change anything, and I got a used replacement snorkel and air temp sensor(the original got melted a little)

and when I checked the codes originally it was just a multiple misfire, after the tune up I cleared them, since then nothing else has came up(it hasn't ran since)

and where can I get one of those muffler bearings? y brother is a manager of an advanced auto parts, that would make an awesome gag gift for him
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 08:42 PM
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Muffler bearings are on the shelf next to the blinker fluid......
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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what controls timing on these cars? I read somewhere that the cam sensor only controls the timing of the injectors, and the crank sensor determines engine position so the computer can control timing., and i read that the crank sensor either works or doesn't work, that there is no in between that if it gets fire and fuel the crank sensor works, I'm getting both but ignition timing just seems too far advanced. but cant figure out why, I'm going to call my cousin he bought this thing for 500 a year or 2 ago and as far I know he drove it on the 4 cylinders since he had it, lol
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 09:10 PM
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Read my no-start guide if you haven't yet: https://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-m...ing-guide.html

The PCM controls the timing period. The sensors just tell the computer where the engine is, and the computer decides when to fire the spark or the injectors on it's own.

You have spark? Next would be to measure fuel pressure with a gauge (no shortcuts). Also would be thinking about the battery being weak, so try jump starting it.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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I've seen where you can buy the blinker fluid, halogen fluid and stop light fluid, just looks like little droppers with water and food coloring, lol but the muffler bearing in that packaging would be awesome, lol

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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I actually looked through that when I signed up on this forum, and I'm going to rent a fuel pressure tester tomorrow, but to me it just seems like the timing is way out, like too advanced.

also how much play is allowable on the cam syncro (there's a small bit of play on this one)
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