Ford once again says goodbye to the Taurus - Page 6 - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #51 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The White Falcon View Post
You think that's bad - FCA sold three Darts last month in the US.

The car was discontinued after the 2016 model year. There are still 22 listed on AutoTrader.

I did see this. But I'm not one to weep for any FCA product dying (those involved in the labor to produce notwithstanding)... but that's my general anti-Chrysler bias.



It did bother me to see the Cruze end, though. I had a soft spot for that vehicle although I've never driven one.

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post #52 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 09:43 AM
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Are you aware those other companies 'stunning sedans' have failed to reinvigorate an obviously dying market segment? Honda & Toyota pumped plenty of resources into the latest iterations of their 'stunning sedans' only to see the see their sales fall at a similar rate to Ford's. Columnists can have agendas, numbers don't. Take another look at the chart in post 7
There's still a market for sedans even if it isn't a dominant position. Every other person and their cat in my area drives a 3-series it seems.

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post #53 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 09:59 AM
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Are you aware those other companies 'stunning sedans' have failed to reinvigorate an obviously dying market segment? Honda & Toyota pumped plenty of resources into the latest iterations of their 'stunning sedans' only to see the see their sales fall at a similar rate to Ford's. Columnists can have agendas, numbers don't. Take another look at the chart in post 7
So what's your point, that because sedans no longer command the largest market share that Ford is justified in not even trying to compete? It is still a large segment (third largest after trucks and CUVs last I read). Sales might be declining but there are still many many sedans sold. Obviously you can't just show up and expect to win customers, you have to give them something as or more appealing than the competition. Ford apparently doesn't believe it can, not in the U.S. at any rate. If that's what they believe, than so be it, I just think it's unfortunate because they've shown in the past that they can be among the best. I remember well reading how the SVT Contour was a more dynamically rewarding car than the S4 or 330i, for a fraction the price (R&T or C&D). I owned an SVT Contour after a couple SHOs and loved that car. Wouldn't have taken any other sedan over it. How long ago that seems.

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post #54 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 12:58 PM
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Very few bought the Contour. Youíre looking at this emotionally, not dispassionately.

The segment is not large anymore. Within a seven year period sedans are projected to go from 2.3 million cars a year in 2014 to 880k by 2021, which will likely be the last year for the Fusion. Most of that will go to the Camry and Accord, and those buyers arenít interested in converting. For those buyers, its not about how good the competition is, itís about staying in their religion.

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post #55 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jag1959 View Post
Discussion is great but please come back with something better than 'I see Teslas'
I see Teslas because they are selling a lot of them. As of January '19 it is the best selling U.S. made car. So yes, I do see them. It is also the number one selling EV in Germany, which is saying a lot because Germans are very loyal to their own brands like Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes, etc.. One reason why this company is doing so well is because people these days love technology and care about the environment, and Ford, well, they are conservative and think that people will buy tomorrow what they bought yesterday. Ford is no stranger to technology, they just rarely ever include it in a consumer product unless other car manufactures offer the same feature.

Your own graph shows that the Honda Clarity rose on sales by 722%. Had it also listed the Tesla you would have seen a similar rise in sales. BOTH of these sedans are forward thinking which is what people want to spend their money on today. People aren't saying no to "sedans" per sa, they are saying no to yesterdays sedans. Like you said, the numbers do not lie.



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Midsize sedans are down across the board, period.
With exception to, you know, the Tesla 3. It is the only sedan that keeps growing in numbers. Now that they have reached the magic $35,000 price tag (BTW same as the Fusion Energi) I'm sure they will sell even more. I can see Ford removing some of its cars from the market, but the Fusion and the Focus were good cars in their price point. Instead of giving up and removing them from the market they should instead update them and make them more competitive. By removing their cars from the market it's like they're saying they are not creative enough to make a modern sedan that people want.

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Obviously you can't just show up and expect to win customers, you have to give them something as or more appealing than the competition. Ford apparently doesn't believe it can, not in the U.S. at any rate. If that's what they believe, than so be it, I just think it's unfortunate because they've shown in the past that they can be among the best.
Exactly! I agree 110% The saddest part about Ford doing this is that it shows they don't have confidence in their car creativity.
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post #56 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 04:30 PM
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Tesla numbers maybe deceptive since they have had years of presales and they are just releasing the cars.
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post #57 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 04:54 PM
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"Very few bought the Contour. You’re looking at this emotionally, not dispassionately."

To your first point, no argument, though my point was that Ford has relatively recently made excellent cars and the Ford Europe-designed Contour was actually an excellent car as a driver's car. That they didn't appeal too much to the American public isn't surprising. Americans generally have horrible taste in cars, or at least, they generally favor appliances as opposed to dynamically good cars. The popularity of BMW is not a counter-argument; when BMW really did make great driver's cars they were a niche brand; as their mainstream popularity grew from the E46 on their cars have become dynamically less and less impressive to the point of feeling numb, outside of the occasional niche model like the M2. The F30 328/330 was little better than a RWD Sonata yet it seems to be every other car on the road where I live, usually with brake dust-caked wheels.

To the second point, I'm not looking at this emotionally. I'm not really invested in current Ford sedans and so don't really care that the Taurus and Fusion (as they are now) are going away, I simply think that it is astoundingly short-sighted for one of the big three U.S. legacy automakers to not make even one sedan for the U.S. market. Sedans, though a shrinking piece of the pie, are still a huge piece of the pie. If I were running Ford, I'd make a Taurus that is closer to the size of the Fusion, benchmarking the Audi A4 as that seems to be an appealing balance of tech, luxury and style. A cheaper version of course.

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post #58 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FoolishEarthling View Post
"Very few bought the Contour. Youíre looking at this emotionally, not dispassionately."

To your first point, no argument, though my point was that Ford has relatively recently made excellent cars and the Ford Europe-designed Contour was actually an excellent car as a driver's car. That they didn't appeal too much to the American public isn't surprising. Americans generally have horrible taste in cars, or at least, they generally favor appliances as opposed to dynamically good cars. The popularity of BMW is not a counter-argument; when BMW really did make great driver's cars they were a niche brand; as their mainstream popularity grew from the E46 on their cars have become dynamically less and less impressive to the point of feeling numb, outside of the occasional niche model like the M2. The F30 328/330 was little better than a RWD Sonata yet it seems to be every other car on the road where I live, usually with brake dust-caked wheels.

To the second point, I'm not looking at this emotionally. I'm not really invested in current Ford sedans and so don't really care that the Taurus and Fusion (as they are now) are going away, I simply think that it is astoundingly short-sighted for one of the big three U.S. legacy automakers to not make even one sedan for the U.S. market. Sedans, though a shrinking piece of the pie, are still a huge piece of the pie. If I were running Ford, I'd make a Taurus that is closer to the size of the Fusion, benchmarking the Audi A4 as that seems to be an appealing balance of tech, luxury and style. A cheaper version of course.
Very well said but I do think inexpensive gas prices need to be a part of the declining car sales conversation. If gas prices start to jump, Ford will definitely be caught with their pants down in the US. I would hope they have plans to react quickly by upping production of their small cars in other countries and bringing them to the US quickly.
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post #59 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 06:10 PM
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^ If they didn't have Focus Active plans on standby for that contingency, I'd be surprised.

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post #60 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 06:30 PM
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Tesla numbers maybe deceptive since they have had years of presales and they are just releasing the cars.
More than three quarters of orders for the Model 3 in the past quarter came from new customers, rather than reservation holders. Teslaís market share has increased from 0.5 percent early last last year to 2.1 percent in September. Other brands like Jeep and Subaru have seen similar rises, but it took them five years. Tesla did it in eight months. Plus they are coming out with the model Y, which will be a small SUV and could even sell better than the model 3. Ford has the technology to come out with something like this, but they are too conservative.

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If they didn't have Focus Active plans on standby for that contingency, I'd be surprised.
Ford has said that the Focus Active is dead, even if the tariffs go away.
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