Accessing Advanced Ford PIDs With a Scan Tool - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
Sam
breeves002

 
Sam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Chapter: Midwest
Year: 2008
Model: Mercury Sable
Engine: 3.5L Ti-VCT V6
Posts: 6,646
Rep Power: 100
       
Garage
Trader Score: 8 reviews
Accessing Advanced Ford PIDs With a Scan Tool

So for the few of you that care about this, I decided to modify a cheap ELM327 clone to read both MS and HS-CAN data. Normally ELM327 can only read HS-CAN data. This writeup will show you how to modify an ELM327 device so it will read MS-CAN.

Thanks to tech advisor behlinla for his help in teaching me some of this info and editing the article!

Info on CAN bus:

Note: Only 2004+ vehicles will have CAN bus (basically if you have digital display in your instrument cluster). OBD-II cars before that used the SAE J1850 PWM protocol, which will still work with FORscan. FORscan only supports Ford and Mazda vehicles.

Now some of you may be asking: "What in the heck is this guy talking about... MS and HS-CAN???" CAN stands for Controller Area Network, and it's a digital network that connects different modules in your car much like computers would be connected to a network (LAN) in your home or workplace. Accessing the data and self-tests on this network will be useful if you want to troubleshoot problems with something other than the engine (like with the ABS or air bags for example). In the past you used to have to buy very expensive scan tools and software to view this data, but now you can can have this information at your fingertips for as little as $10!

There are two separate CAN buses on most vehicles before 2013, called HS-CAN (High Speed) and MS-CAN (Medium Speed). HS-CAN is used for 'priority' data, like engine parameters (PCM) and critical communication between safety modules like the ABS and RCM. MS-CAN is used more for things inside the car like radio, climate, and lighting control.

In new cars (2013+), nearly every function and control goes over a CAN bus. They have four CAN buses (3x HS and 1x MS) because there is much more data flying around. Things on CAN would be your headlamp switch, drivers door switches, hazard lights, turn signal stalk, dimmer switches, seat adjustments, mirror adjustments, any button on your dash, you name it! I need to scan a 2013+ Ford to actually find out what modules there are!

The HS and MS-CAN buses are bridged together in the instrument panel cluster (IPC) so data can be shared between networks if required.

HS-CAN modules:
-PCM (Powertrain Control Module)
-ABS (Anti-lock Brake System, includes AdvanceTrac and Traction Control)
-RCM (Restraint Control Module, AKA airbags and seatbelts)
-AWD (All Wheel Drive module, if equipped)
-OCSM (Occupent Classification System Module, AKA Passenger Seat Sensors)
-PAM (Parking Aid Module)
-IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
-PSCM (Power Steering Control Module, Hydraulic PS only)
-SECM (Steering Effort Control Module, Electric PS only)
-CCM (Cruise Control Module)
-APIM (Accessory Protocol Interface Module AKA SYNC)

MS-CAN modules:
-SJB/BCM (Smart Junction Box/Body Control Module)
-HVAC (Heating, Ventilation & Air Conditioning module)
-ACM (Audio Control Module)
-DSP (Audio Digital Signal Processing Module)
-DSM (Driver Seat Module)
-DDM (Driver Door Module)
-RFA (Remote Function Actuator Module)
-DCSM (Dual Climate Controlled Seat Module)
-SDARS (Satellite Digital Audio Radio Service)
-FCIM (Front Controls Interface Module)
-FDIM (Front Display Interface Module)
-ILCM (Interior Lighting Control Module)
-HCM-2 (High Beam Control Module)
-SOD-R/L (Side Obstacle Detection Control Module AKA BLIS, a module for each side of the vehicle)
-IPC-MS (Instrument Panel Cluster)
-GPSM (Global Positioning System Module)
-APIM (Accessory Protocol Interface Module AKA SYNC)

There may be other modules on other cars or less modules on some cars. Here's a diagram from a 2011 that show all the modules connected to the CAN: http://revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=875110

How to modify your ELM327:

A bunch of us have cheap eBay ELM327 Clones. Stock they only connect to HS-CAN and will not be able to access MS-CAN. The newer STN1170 chips found in some scan tools already have support for MS-CAN (and GM single wire CAN), so you're set if you have one of those!

It's very simple to modify the device to allow use of MS-CAN features. You need a dual position, dual pole (DPDT) switch. Flipping the switch will direct either the HS- or MS-CAN terminal pair in the DLC to the input of the ELM327 chip.



Instructions adapted from here: http://forscan.org/howto.html

Step 1: Crack open the clone or your ELM327 Device. Usually there are 4 screws under the sticker.
Step 2: Unplug the OBD-II connector and un-solder wires 6 and 14 (mark them so you know which is which).
Step 3: Solder 2 new wires to pins 6 and 14 (HS-CAN pair) on the OBD-II connector.
Step 4: Solder 2 new wires to pins 3 and 11 (MS-CAN pair) on the OBD-II connector.
Step 5: Solder the wires originally on pins 6 and 14 to the two middle poles on the switch.
Step 6: Solder the new wires on 6 and 14 to one side of the switch (be sure the polarity is correct. Pin 6 will match up with the one originally on pin 6)
Step 7: Solder the new wires on 3 and 11 to the other side of the switch. Be sure to keep pin 3 with the one originally on pin 6 for polarity purposes.

BE SURE NOT TO MIX UP MS-CAN AND HS-CAN AND OBSERVE POLARITY!!! Bad things happen if you do that. I used RED wires for HS-CAN and Black wires for MS-CAN.

A few diagrams of how it works:
Diagrams are showing the dash connector view, reverse for the scan tool view!



Pictures of the process and final product:
My ELM327 motherboard:


Wires soldered onto the OBD-II connector:


Switch installed (oops forgot some heat shrink):


All in the little package waiting to be put back together, also the crappy hole I cut:


Finished product!:




HOW TO ACCESS MS-CAN VIA FORSCAN:

Now when you open FORScan it will ask you if you have an MS/HS CAN switch. SAY YES! You may have to delete your cars profile, close the program, re-open it, then connect again for it to ask you the question. Annoyingly I have to do this almost every time I use the program!



Please feel free to PM me with any questions. I'll be happy to sell anyone one of these modified for $29 including shipping.

FORSCAN.org - Download it today. May be the best free software out there!

Once you get connected you can do everything you can do on OBDWiz and ScanXL (pretty much), but you can also run self test. Over both HS-CAN and MS-CAN, here are the modules/tests I can run (listing both HS and MS CAN modules):

Sam

2017 Fusion Energi Platinum
2016 Ford Mustang GT Premium PP Whipple Stage 2

Moved On:
2014 Focus Electric
2008 Mercury Sable Premier
2000 Sable LS Premium Duratec
1997 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
Sam is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 02:38 AM
Technical Advisor
 
behlinla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 7,539
Rep Power: 90
      
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Reserved.
behlinla is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 03:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 728
Rep Power: 14
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
The BCM (Body Control Module) usually is the module that controls any interior/exterior lighting, power windows, locks, mirrors, rear defroster, wipers/washer, and anything not related to ABS, SRS, TCS, ECU, HVAC, Audio and TCM.

HOWEVER, on most NEW cars, there are modules that are integrated with the BCM in the doors, rear of the car (tail/brake/turn) and other modules for brake distribution, ABS/TCS, SRS, ECU and other stuff in the car.

IF you decide to add lighting to the interior and tap into a circuit that you assumed is able to handle the extra load, such as a dome light circuit for extra interior lighting, chances are, once the additional load created by the extra light, the main system sees this extra load, and the main computer decides something is wrong and it will automatically turn OFF that circuit without blowing a fuse.

Think of a CAN buss as 2 wires handling multiple circuit system data feeds. The computer is able to take the multiple feeds off the 2 wires and separate them into the different modules in 2 way communication. Wiring looks simpler, but the wiring is handling a LOT more data.

The voltages are also different. Most switch circuits are 5 volt circuits and the main devise circuit is the full 12 volt circuit. The switches are not "wired" up directly to the devise, such as a window switch hooked up directly to a motor. Everything is sent through the CAN buss system from the switches, then main power is sent to the devise.

This system also allows the main computer to store a live feed of all devises (even gas/brake pedal and steering wheel position) for up to 30 seconds of data. This is somewhat controversial because it technically is a black box for the car. This data shows (as in a collision) what the driver was doing right before the collision occurred.

EDIT:

This system is found on every car made today. Not just Ford has these. My 07 Elantra had these same systems. Even my 03 Elantra had some CAN buss systems (although it was simpler).

Last edited by cclngthr; 07-18-2013 at 03:06 AM.
cclngthr is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
Sam
breeves002

 
Sam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Chapter: Midwest
Year: 2008
Model: Mercury Sable
Engine: 3.5L Ti-VCT V6
Posts: 6,646
Rep Power: 100
       
Garage
Trader Score: 8 reviews
I know the system is found on every car, however this is the way to access it with Fords!

Thanks for the additional input!

Sam

2017 Fusion Energi Platinum
2016 Ford Mustang GT Premium PP Whipple Stage 2

Moved On:
2014 Focus Electric
2008 Mercury Sable Premier
2000 Sable LS Premium Duratec
1997 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
Sam is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 05:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 728
Rep Power: 14
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeves002 View Post
I know the system is found on every car, however this is the way to access it with Fords!

Thanks for the additional input!
There are scan tools that can access this info for any car. In Innova has a tool that can access the data with these systems on board.

A lot of this is generic and available to access on all cars; not just Ford. Codes are the same for generic systems, but with manufacturer specific codes, these also can be accessed with the scan tool.

The scan tool I have is (expensive) able to datalog everything I need to do. I had a code come up for the electric power steering system in my 09 Mazda 3, and I was able to not only access it, but was able to find a TSB/recall on the system through the online protocol through the PC based scan tool application.

I also have heard that these scan tool applications and hardware are becoming available for the iPad and other tablet based systems.
cclngthr is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 10:53 PM
Technical Advisor
 
behlinla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 7,539
Rep Power: 90
      
Trader Score: 0 reviews
As far as I can tell, the most expensive Innova scan tool does not do anything with MS CAN. It also looks like it only supports the main modules on HS CAN like PCM, ABS, and SRS. For example, it will probably not be able to retrieve any PAM codes, and certainly not any SJB codes over MS CAN whereas FORScan can. The point is the software above is FREE and combined with a $10-20 scan tool it will do almost as much as a professional grade scan tool that costs thousands of dollars!

If your point of posting is to question the usefulness of this article, I suggest you download FORScan and try it out for yourself with a modified scan tool to see all the things you are missing. It works with Mazda too.
behlinla is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 11:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 728
Rep Power: 14
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by behlinla View Post
As far as I can tell, the most expensive Innova scan tool does not do anything with MS CAN. It also looks like it only supports the main modules on HS CAN like PCM, ABS, and SRS. For example, it will probably not be able to retrieve any PAM codes, and certainly not any SJB codes over MS CAN whereas FORScan can. The point is the software above is FREE and combined with a $10-20 scan tool it will do almost as much as a professional grade scan tool that costs thousands of dollars!

If your point of posting is to question the usefulness of this article, I suggest you download FORScan and try it out for yourself with a modified scan tool to see all the things you are missing. It works with Mazda too.
The scan tool I have is able to do everything a dealer tool does, which is based off the same web based system the dealers use.

As I said, a lot of the data is generic and used on every car, not just for one particular brand of vehicle. The way I interpreted the comment was it claimed to be accessed only on Fords, not other cars

The Forscan software is only for a Ford, and it appears not to work with GM or other manufacturers; which I would have an issue with because I don't only see a Ford based vehicle. I want something that is compatible with multiple manufacturers; which does come with a high price tag, I paid around $50,000 for my tool. That one is a laptop PC with the different manufacturer applications with a wireless port for the hardware to plug in to the car (the scan tool PC can be on my bench and the terminal that plugs into the OBD2 port in the car would send the data through a dedicated wireless network to the computer).
cclngthr is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 12:07 AM
Technical Advisor
 
behlinla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 7,539
Rep Power: 90
      
Trader Score: 0 reviews
If you have a pro grade tool like a Snap-on then you would have this info already. But the target audience of this article is the DIY crowd that doesn't have a $50k scan tool at their disposal. Yes, we are aware other makes have the same kind of advanced PIDs as well.
behlinla is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
Sam
breeves002

 
Sam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Chapter: Midwest
Year: 2008
Model: Mercury Sable
Engine: 3.5L Ti-VCT V6
Posts: 6,646
Rep Power: 100
       
Garage
Trader Score: 8 reviews
What scan tool do you have? This mod costs between $12-15.... So yeah, most people can't afford a dealer type scan tool.

Sam

2017 Fusion Energi Platinum
2016 Ford Mustang GT Premium PP Whipple Stage 2

Moved On:
2014 Focus Electric
2008 Mercury Sable Premier
2000 Sable LS Premium Duratec
1997 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
Sam is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 12:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Chapter: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 728
Rep Power: 14
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by behlinla View Post
If you have a pro grade tool like a Snap-on then you would have this info already. But the target audience of this article is the DIY crowd that doesn't have a $50k scan tool at their disposal. Yes, we are aware other makes have the same kind of advanced PIDs as well.
The issue I have with the wording is not clear if someone reads this and wants to see if it works on a GM or other manufacturer vehicle other than Ford/Mazda. You can't always assume people reading this (which it does come up in search engines) will notice it is only for the Ford product, and it may appear to them that other manufacturers don't have this.

You do have to plan on stupids when writing this kind of stuff. Not everyone will notice right off this will work for Ford only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeves002 View Post
What scan tool do you have? This mod costs between $12-15.... So yeah, most people can't afford a dealer type scan tool.
The tool I have is on a Toughbook laptop with touchscreen and has individual manufacturer applications for the scan tool. I open up one application, then it reads the VIN number off the ECU, and selects the appropriate application that is web based for the specific manufacturer. It is not a Snap-On tool, but more of a compilation I designed that has all manufacturer software loaded on it. Since I also attend dealer trainings for different manufacturers, I have the ability to use their software. For an independent shop, this is perfect. Most independents don't have this. I started taking the trainings when I taught high school auto.
cclngthr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Guide: What Scan Tool Should I Buy? Sam Taurus and Sable General Discussion 12 02-13-2019 01:30 PM
MAF testing trashtruck Maintenance and Repair 2 02-20-2016 03:20 PM
Misfire Diagnosis Using Mode $06 (Advanced) Sam Maintenance and Repair 14 06-02-2014 12:24 PM
OBD II Scan tool canít connect to 2005 Taurus computer. qcy2k6 Maintenance and Repair 5 04-26-2013 01:59 PM
iPhone scan tool App/connector Sable476 Odds and Ends 4 04-12-2013 10:47 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome