Head unit, sub, and amp - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NyteFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Chapter: Southern
Posts: 920
Rep Power: 15
 
Trader Score: 3 reviews
Head unit, sub, and amp

Edit - Wire Routing

So I just read this

https://www.taurusclub.com/forum/117-...ml#post1586269
Good read on how to run the power wire but what about the grounds? What is ideally the best place to run grounds in the trunk?

And what about that remote turn on wire? Remember I'm mounting the HU in the center console but I'm going to run the HU's power wire from the center console and splice into the existing (or just cut the power line from the ICP) power line behind the ICP. Would I be correct in assuming that the stock remote wire is behind the ICP as well? If so splice new HU into that remote and then connect the amps to the remote line listed in the post.

Actually since I do have the HU in the center I could just run the remote wire from the center to the two amps right down the middle of the floor into the trunk if there is room to do that without having wires and RCAs getting into a bind due to the back seat. If not they'll run down the right side of the vehicle and I'll just have the remote wire spliced into the ICP area

3/26/15 The Edit is Real!

Going for some sound proofing to reduce road noise and will then go into the deadener (Dynamat/Fat/Raam etc etc) later on but for now I'm going this cost efficient route of dampening.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/dB-3-4-ft...4#.UiUlln-4g3U
http://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTouc...8#.UiUmA3-4g3U

Okay time to buy some wire to power both of the amps.

What's the correct way to route the power wires? Left side or right side of vehicle? I know it goes through the firewall hole to the battery. About how long should those power lines be? Same with the grounding point. Is there a suitable grounding point in the trunk for both of those amps? I'm going to be running 0 gauge wire.

Edit:
So far I think I have everything I need:
Amp Wiring Kit - http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-au...tallation-kit/
Distribution Block - http://www.knukonceptz.com/search-re...ibution-block/ Dan from KnuKonceptz recommended I use 1 80A fuse and 1 100A fuse
Power wires to ground the amps from the trunk - Dan suggested in the email to use 4 gauge power wire but I'm going to use the 0 gauge kit so should I use 0 gauge or 4 gauge?
Remote turn on wire for both amps and then a relay before connecting them to the head unit. What size fuse on the relay? 1A or 5A?

I looked at the fuses on the back of the amps and this is what they have. The sub amp has a single 80A fuse while the 4 channel amp as 3 30A fuses. I believe that's why Dan from KnuKonceptz said I should use a 80A and a 100A fuse in the distribution block.

Since I'm connecting both amps to said distribution block and then running a single 0 gauge wire from the block to the battery, do I need to use an inline fuse or does the distribution block cover that? *Edit* derp the amp install kit has an inline fuse. What size fuse do I need though?

Am I missing anything or am I finally ready to start installing? I'm pretty sure I'm going to need some extra crimps as well. *Edit* There are some set screw ring terminals (http://www.knukonceptz.com/sp/set-sc...10-gauge-pair/) that I'm going to use instead of crimp connections. My order turns out to be over $100 with shipping. I should atleast get a free shirt or decal atleast

This is turning into a lot more than just BUY AMPS AND SUBS LOL but I'm learning quite a bit as to how things work. This project keeps growing financially (NOISE PROOFING A TAURUS LOL) but in the end I think it's going to work.

Another edit

Bumping this because I have some new info

The amps have arrived. Now I just need a place to mount them. I have the sub box as well I just don't know how to secure that without damaging the box.

Since Radio Shack went under I was able to get some 12g wire so I'm going to rewire the speakers as well. I'll search for how to get wire through the door jabs but I would also like some feed back as well for this.

And where's a nifty hot 12v source I can tap into for my head unit that's near the center console? I'm thinking the 12v plug in.


Big edit.

Sub and box have been ordered.

Box - http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com...enclosure.html
DAT SUB - http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com...subwoofer.html

Amps are in the cart as well as the HU

HU - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OYWF2BW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2JVCW1GQY516ASub amp - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CJ1LDE0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3QWSZ44N8P3XHSpeaker amp - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EJX4KF0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_9?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3QWSZ44N8P3XH
This HU is being put in the center console where the CD changer would sit

Now for my final post to the top of the thread:

I wasn't planning on using the CD player at all, just straight DAC to the phone. I've started on this project, just ordered the sub and the box. About to get both amps. I'm going to have a guy at work use some software to take the clamp/secure points on the HU and then use that to fab something up so it can sit in the CD changer slot.

I'm trying to find another HU that has all those nifty features as the one I have listed but without the CD player to save a few bucks but I'm not having any luck. Meh

Oh snap I need to get a wiring harness adapter don't I. This one right?

http://www.amazon.com/METRA-70-5715-Harness-TAURUS-HARNESS/dp/B00FMSDRWI/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1423686691&sr=1-2&keywords=70-5715
I may have found a bracket that may work with this install. This is from the Metra site

http://www.metraonline.com/part/Afte...kit_87-09-4012

I think that's just the bracket that a single DIN unit can go into. If that's the case I can put the unit in that basket and then drop it into the hole where the six player CD changer is and mount it in there somehow and then fill the holes with a trim piece. I'll work on hitting up a JY this weekend and see if I can scavenge a Metra kit and see if the metal bracket is removeable as well as snagging some MLV from some Towncars

rabblerabblerabble

Last edited by NyteFire; 03-26-2015 at 12:54 PM.
NyteFire is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 05:10 PM
Junior Member
 
Tenol004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
You hit the nail on the head with that Pioneer DEH-xxxx. Pioneer is generally regarded as having the best head units on the market for under $200. 4 channels would mean that you can drive 4 individual speakers and still retain balance/fade between them (they are each on their own channel). 6 channels simply means you add the ability to put two more speakers in there and still fade/balance them. If you plan on driving the speakers with the head unit then output channels don't matter, as you'll only be using 2 of the RCAs for the subwoofer...however if you plan on running them off of an external amp with the signal sent via low-level RCA, then you'll need a 6 channel HU (2 front + 2 rear + 2 for subwoofer)

As far as your sub/amp goes... $200 is a pretty shallow budget, but it can be done, if you don't mind sacrificing some SQ/SPL, whichever you're going for. Another option is to go with a 5 channel amp, which would drive your new speakers, as well as a sub. It would be a bit more in price, but definitely the best bang for your buck...considering you already invested in speakers. If you would like to go with a dedicated subwoofer amp, I would suggest Rockford Fosgate Prime series amps. This is RF's budget line, however Steve Meade bench tested them with an amp dyno and they performed above rated power consistently, which is more than can be said for most brands (especially dual and sony). As far as a sub goes, are you looking for 1 12'', 1 10''? Do you have a box, or are you building one? Is clearance an issue? If you can give some details as to what you're shooting for with this amp/sub setup I can narrow down some potential candidates.

*Your tweeter question* It depends on how you set it up. You can run them off their own channel with a high-pass filter, or they can be tied to the front component/coax speakers in the kick via crossover. For ease of installation and price, I would recommend running the tweeters through a crossover network in conjunction with the kick speakers, and placing those on the front channel (generally cheaper, and much less of a headache with wiring/tuning).
Tenol004 is offline  
post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NyteFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Chapter: Southern
Posts: 920
Rep Power: 15
 
Trader Score: 3 reviews
The tweeters are done via a cross over. It's a JBL speaker/tweeter combo I can't remember the part numbers.

I have the head unit solid and my budget for sub/amp just went up because of that sweet, sweet christmas money.

So what can I do without breaking the bank hard? I want to run something that sounds good but I don't need a SMACK THE TASTE OUT OF YA MOUTH WITH THA BASS SO HARD IT ROCKS THE PLACE system. Hearing the bumps is fun and all but I don't want to shake the earth.

The sub box question on building a box or buying one - I know a box is essential and I have a warehouse to work with but it might just be easier to buy a prebuilt one.

Clearance and size - I really don't know what size to go with. That would probably be a bang/buck question. I don't really haul a whole lot in my trunk either and if I [/i]really[/i] need to move something I have a Ranger.

Dumb down that dedicated amp line for me.

So from what I understand if I wanted to run the speakers and the sub I need a 6 channel HU which is what I'm looking at (good). Then you said a 5 channel amp. The 5 channel amp, that's completely different from the 6 preamp slots on the HU, yes? From what I'm understanding I would run the RCAs from the HU into the amp in the back. How would I connect a 6 channel HU to a 5 channel amp (stupid f'ing question I know) or would I need a 6/ channel amp.

From the little that I do know about power and noise, you want to the RCAs on one side and run the power line on the other. With my HU in the center console would that pose an issue? I wouldn't think so since it's still in the middle of the car just moved back a couple of feet from the ICP area

And since I was cheap I only got two speakers/tweeters last year so I might have to get another pair for my rear deck. I got nothing back there right now

rabblerabblerabble
NyteFire is offline  
 
post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 10:12 AM
Junior Member
 
Tenol004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
I will attempt to address all your issues in a concise manner...forgive me if i don't, i spent last night until 3a.m. doing things for work :/

6 channel HU vs 5 channel amp.

The 5th and 6th channel for the head unit output a stereo signal (Right being channel 5 and left being channel 6). A subwoofer is typically a mono application, so it only requires one channel. This is why they make a 5 channel amp, since it only requires one channel to run the subwoofer. However, this has to do with output. So while the amp only has a connection for 5 speakers (4 speakers + 1 subwoofer in this case), it will have 6 inputs, since it essentially adds the subwoofer frequencies from the left and right channel into a mono output for the sub. A 5 channel amplifier will have 6 rca inputs, so the 6 channel headunit will match up perfectly.

Subwoofer and Box

If you're looking for a SQ application, you're going to most likely want a sealed enclosure, as these typically have more "punchy" bass, whereas a ported enclosure has the "boomy" kind of bass gets very loud but lacks definition. I would suggest a 12'' subwoofer in a sealed enclosure. The 12'' driver will get lower than an 8'' or 10'' and produce low frequencies without distortion. I will suggest subwoofers once we settle on the amp you want...so on to that.

Amplifier Type

5 channel vs dedicated mono-block.

5 channel amp will power all your cabin speakers as well as your subwoofer. This will require you to run wire to the cabin speakers from the amp, but seeing as how you are going to add a rear-fill this would be a great time to do that. Your head unit is capable of providing clean power to a certain extent, but cannot do that nearly as well as an amplifier can (especially class a/b...but more on that later). If you want a true SQ setup, I would suggest a 5 channel amp to power all your speakers, and when adding a rear fill, selecting midbass drivers. You don't want the vocals, instruments, and defining sounds to be coming from behind you, as this can drastically alter your soundstage. This is the more expensive route, but it will maximize your value for the money you spend on speakers (kind of like spending a little more for the V8 vs the v6).

If you decide to go the cheaper route, a monoblock amp is one that takes a single pair of RCA inputs and outputs to one channel (in this case your subwoofer). Your speakers will then be driven off of the headunit's built in amp, which will deliver roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the power the 5 channel amp would have. Since a 5 channel amp costs roughly 50% more than a monoblock, the cost/benefit is completely up to you, and what you desire from your system. I've run both, and can definitely say that a 5 channel amp, with component fronts (which you have), midbass rear-fill, subwoofer, and all channels crossed at the correct frequencies (which i can walk you through once we pick the drivers) will blow your mind compared to a simple head unit running your speakers.

Signal to Noise

This is actually referring to S/N ratio of your components, but I will take care of that when choosing rather than explaining (gets very lengthy). What you are referring to is noise induction from RCAs being placed too close to power wire. This is theoretically possible, however is only really seen when a) Running <1kw RMS systems or b) Using low-quality components with bad/non-existent shielding. In your application, it shouldn't be an issue as long as you buy quality wiring (KnuKonceptz), which is actually cheaper than many big-name brands and much higher quality.

Subwoofer Box

You're going to want to wait on this one until we settle on a subwoofer for you. This will determine the box you'll need based on the T/S Parameters of the driver. Each sub needs a specific box to sound its best, however knowing the trunk dimensions which the box will have to fit through may restrict which box configuration (outside dimensions) we can choose. I.E. if SubwooferX needs 1.2cu ft. we might have 3 different box dimensions to choose from, so thats when you'll need to know the dimensions of the trunk, in order to find the one that best suits you.




I hope this answered most of the questions. Once you decide which way you'd like to go, and establish a final budget, we can get to choosing components. Keep in mind that wiring incurs a decent chunk of change, singe high-power wiring for subwoofers isn't cheap, and you'll need connectors, fuses, etc. I don't mean to discourage you or drag this out, but the last thing anybody wants is to have their system all installed and go.."damn, wish i would have done it this other way, but its too late now". I planned my build for my current 2013 Taurus for 6 months before executing, and I'm currently in the final stages (waiting for it to warm up before I can install the subwoofers). I changed my components nearly 10 times before finally settling on the ones I wanted and going ahead with the build. I'm glad I took the time to plan it, since i'll be keeping that car until they come out with a AWD v8 Taurus
Tenol004 is offline  
post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NyteFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Chapter: Southern
Posts: 920
Rep Power: 15
 
Trader Score: 3 reviews
TLDR version

5 channel amp > just a amp for the sub

If choosing the 5 channel amp route:
- RCAs from HU to amp and wire speakers to amp

I understood everything but then you lost me at rear-fill but judging from context you're talking about the rear deck speakers and have them mostly bass driven, yes?

I was talking to my boss about subs and he used the word "punchy" but he said that the 10" would deliver more bass whereas the 12" would be louder. So basically inverse of what you said. I want the "punchy" good sounder sub, not the droaning loud bad sounder. And yes I will buy a box for it.

So now it comes down to amp/sub/rear speakers as far as budget goes. The HU is paid for and the sub/amp is partially paid for so I guess I can expand my budget.

I'm throwing out $300 as the budget for that combo as a guideline but that is completely negotiable.

rabblerabblerabble
NyteFire is offline  
post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 03:39 PM
Junior Member
 
Tenol004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
First, to address what your boss is saying... which is completely incorrect... assuming the same subs are being used. A 12'' subwoofer has more cone area, so it can move more air and deliver more bass. The ''boominess'' is when people want SPL over SQ, so they just push as much power to a huge sub and see how loud they can turn it up. SPL = ported box SQ = sealed box, typically.

You want SQ, so here's what i'll recommend.

Rockford Fosgate R600X5 Prime 5-Channel Amplifier = $230
Rockford Fosgate Prime R2 P2D4 10'' Subwoofer = $40

*Rockford is highly regarded in their amplifiers and subwoofers, that they do better than their rated power, and out-perform other options in this price range.

There are better choices in speakers than rockford (i.e. JBL/Focal/etc), and since you already have JBL i would need to know the model you have in order to match the rear fill, so that it ''plays nice'' and doesn't sound off-balance with the front speakers. The ''rear-fill'' just means that it fills in the sound missing from the front, mainly bass guitar notes, some guitar notes, and some percussion instruments..which is why I emphasized using a midbass driver, rather than a 2-way or 3-way that would have a tweeter included with it (since we won't be using the tweeter anyway). This just helps to round out your sound and make it so that the soundstage sits nicely on the dashboard, as if the band/music was playing a set on the hood of the car...as opposed to sounding like its coming from the speakers in the doors.
Tenol004 is offline  
post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NyteFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Chapter: Southern
Posts: 920
Rep Power: 15
 
Trader Score: 3 reviews
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003KN2TI0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
JBL GTO8606c in the front

rabblerabblerabble
NyteFire is offline  
post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 04:52 PM
Junior Member
 
Tenol004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN
Chapter: Midwest
Posts: 18
Rep Power: 0
 
Trader Score: 0 reviews
I would suggest another pair of GTO8606c 6x8's in the rear, and just sell the crossovers + tweeters to recoup at least half of the purchase price. That's what I did with my component sets. That way the response curves and sonic signatures are the same between the front and rear speakers.
Tenol004 is offline  
post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NyteFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Chapter: Southern
Posts: 920
Rep Power: 15
 
Trader Score: 3 reviews
All right I'll throw them in my cart

rabblerabblerabble
NyteFire is offline  
post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-03-2015, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NyteFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Chapter: Southern
Posts: 920
Rep Power: 15
 
Trader Score: 3 reviews
Well Tenol004 has gone dark on me and this is where I've left off. I'm looking for the sub he mentioned and this is all I could findhttp://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R2D4-10-10-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B004M5YI7A/ref=sr_1_1?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1419610187&sr=1-1&keywords=rockford+fosgate+prime+r2
It's the R2D4 R2 sub. His post mentioned the R2 P2D4 and I haven't been able to find that on Amazon.

I have the amp picked out as per his recommendation and another pair of JBL GTO8606c's for the rear deck. I guess now all I would need are RCAs and a sub box?

Someone help me out on this

rabblerabblerabble
NyteFire is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome