Firespirit
Mar 9 2006, 12:48 AM
'97 Taurus Vulcan 123K miles:
Experiencing
loss of: power steering assist, all window controls (none are lit up), rear window defrost controls, half of the MFS controls (only Hi, Lo, and turn signals work), and radio only when car is in R, (D), D, and 1. Everything functions fine when put into P or N.
I was told that there might be a TSB on this problem, but I was not able to find anything on it. It was also mentioned to me that it might have something to do with the wiring getting chaffed on something within the steering column. Any help would be appreciated! I need to get LRB back to her old self ASAP. She's my daily driver and the "reliable" one.
gohim
Mar 9 2006, 02:37 AM
You need to adjust or replace and adjust the TRS (transmission range sensor). It's a black plastic box with a wiring harness connector plugged into it, that sits on the top of the transmission, and has the transmission shift cable connected on top of it.
joshuapace
Mar 9 2006, 04:24 AM
Thats a nasty fault. Hope you work it out.
Firespirit
Mar 9 2006, 08:47 AM
| QUOTE (gohim @ Mar 9 2006, 02:37 AM) |
| You need to adjust or replace and adjust the TRS (transmission range sensor). It's a black plastic box with a wiring harness connector plugged into it, that sits on the top of the transmission, and has the transmission shift cable connected on top of it. |
How would I go about "adjusting" it? And I'm not sure why it would be acting up now if I had the transmission replaced 11K miles ago?
mykej27
Mar 9 2006, 11:52 AM
| QUOTE (gohim @ Mar 8 2006, 11:37 PM) |
| You need to adjust or replace and adjust the TRS (transmission range sensor). It's a black plastic box with a wiring harness connector plugged into it, that sits on the top of the transmission, and has the transmission shift cable connected on top of it. |
Why would you suggest that? Her problem doesn't sound anything related to the transmission.
It sounds like a grounding problem or a charging problem. Make sure the black wire from the battery to the frame isn't loose or covered with corrossion (can't spell it). I replaced my negative battery ground and it improved the power. Also take it to have the charging system checked. Also check to make sure the battery connectors are on tight (including the rear wire connectors are tight). One time the red wire came loose and I couldn't tell until it came completely off while I was driving.
Firespirit
Mar 9 2006, 01:58 PM
Update: I'm on my lunch break now, and when I started my car and left work, everything was working fine until I got down the road about a mile when the radio stopped working (still lights up though), but the PS was working and so were the windows, rear defrost, and MFS. I drove down to the Ford dealer and asked to speak with a tech that had experience with the Taurus. This tech suggested that it sounds exactly like an MLP sensor going bad. He said the MLP is the same thing as the TRS.
Eric over at SHOCago suggested that it might be bad engine grounds. Wtf is going on?! Ah!
mykej27
Mar 9 2006, 02:09 PM
I take it that you already checked the battery connections.
Interesting. I'm wondering when they re-installed your transmission that they damaged a clip to the TRS plug and it's coming loose. It doesn't make any sense that it would cause a complete electrical failure or/and or cause surges to other electrical componets? I'd take it back to the transmission shop and have them look at the connection, because it's not someone you can just look at and see for yourself. They can use a flex telescope and view it without pulling down the transmission.
Firespirit
Mar 9 2006, 02:13 PM
| QUOTE (mykej27 @ Mar 9 2006, 02:09 PM) |
I take it that you already checked the battery connections.
Interesting. I'm wondering when they re-installed your transmission that they damaged a clip to the TRS plug and it's coming loose. It doesn't make any sense that it would cause a complete electrical failure or/and or cause surges to other electrical componets? I'd take it back to the transmission shop and have them look at the connection, because it's not someone you can just look at and see for yourself. They can use a flex telescope and view it without pulling down the transmission. |
When it started happening (which was on the highway on my way to Chicago), I was instantly running a list through my head of what to check for. The battery grounds are good (although the positive cable needs to be cleaned and has for a little while now), they are still functioning like they should. The underhood relays are fine and so are the under dash relays. Which is why I'm not understanding what's going on! At least the transmission is still under warranty and will be for a while. I'll probably go to the shop tomorrow, seeing as I get off of work tonight at 8pm and the shop closes at 6pm. I also might have one of the techs at work help me look.
Linkman
Mar 9 2006, 03:50 PM
I'm a new poster, but I've lurked for awhile since my girlfriend's car is a '97 Taurus with the 3.0 Vulcan and automatic. Column shifter. Variable power assist. 118K miles.
Firespirit, your problem is very likely the transmission range sensor, or also called the neutral safety switch. I just replaced that part on my g/f's Taurus. Here were the symptoms that she had:
- Radio worked in P and O/D, but not R
- Radio randomly just went silent (LED display OK, dead silence from speakers) when in O/D and D
As time passed, the radio outages became more frequent.
- Random loss of power steering (sometime with a flashing seat belt warning light also)
These were rare, but getting more frequent as well. This symptom is what prompted me to start looking for answers, radio is annoying, power steering is dangerous.
- Eventually tranny refused to go into O/D, even on the highway at highway speeds.
I searched here, and googled it. There is a TSB concerning the power steering issue related to the transmission range sensor. A few other 96 and 97 year Taurus owners had similar problems, including the loss of some power accessories.
I picked up an 8 pin (there is also an 11 pin version, but you can tell which your car has by looking at the sensor under the hood) neutral safety switch at Advance Auto for $26 including tax. Replacement took less than 30 minutes. That was over a week ago, and NO symptoms have returned.
Ford calls it the TR sensor, everyone else lists it as neutral safety switch.
I can tell you more about how to replace it if you want to do the work yourself.
Good luck.
EDIII
Mar 9 2006, 05:31 PM
| QUOTE (Linkman @ Mar 9 2006, 03:50 PM) |
I'm a new poster, but I've lurked for awhile since my girlfriend's car is a '97 Taurus with the 3.0 Vulcan and automatic. Column shifter. Variable power assist. 118K miles.
Firespirit, your problem is very likely the transmission range sensor, or also called the neutral safety switch. I just replaced that part on my g/f's Taurus. Here were the symptoms that she had: - Radio worked in P and O/D, but not R - Radio randomly just went silent (LED display OK, dead silence from speakers) when in O/D and D As time passed, the radio outages became more frequent. - Random loss of power steering (sometime with a flashing seat belt warning light also) These were rare, but getting more frequent as well. This symptom is what prompted me to start looking for answers, radio is annoying, power steering is dangerous. - Eventually tranny refused to go into O/D, even on the highway at highway speeds.
I searched here, and googled it. There is a TSB concerning the power steering issue related to the transmission range sensor. A few other 96 and 97 year Taurus owners had similar problems, including the loss of some power accessories.
I picked up an 8 pin (there is also an 11 pin version, but you can tell which your car has by looking at the sensor under the hood) neutral safety switch at Advance Auto for $26 including tax. Replacement took less than 30 minutes. That was over a week ago, and NO symptoms have returned.
Ford calls it the TR sensor, everyone else lists it as neutral safety switch.
I can tell you more about how to replace it if you want to do the work yourself.
Good luck. |
I thought I had remembered reading something here like that. Especially when gohim first mentioned it. It sounded very familar, mainly because it's such a random thing to cause all those problems.
Firespirit
Mar 9 2006, 09:41 PM
Thank God for work, huh? I found the TSB through my work's database and it tells me all I need to know. It is, in fact, a symptom of the TR sensor.
| QUOTE |
Article No. 96-25-5
12/02/96
^ Steering - continuous reduction in power steering assist when shifting into "reverse" or "drive" - vehicles with 3.0l engine
^ Steering - intermittent reduction in power steering assist - vehicles with 3.0l engine built through 5/13/96
FORD: 1996 Taurus
Lincoln-Merucry: 1996 Sable
This TSB article is being republished in it's entirety to revise the Service Procedure.
ISSUE:
There may be intermittent reduction in power steering assist during braking from 80 km/h (50mph) on some vehicles. For this concern, the resolution may be a revision to the Generic Electronic Module (GEM) calibration.
On some other vehicles, there may be a continuous reduction in power steering assist when shifting into "Reverse" or "Drive". The customer may have noticed a loss of radio sound, power window and lock functions. For this 3.0l concern, the cause may be internal shorting of the Transmission Range (TR) sensor.
ACTION:
^ For those vehicles with intermittent reduction in power steering assist, refer to the following Service Procedure, Step 3.
^ For those 3.0l vehicles with continuous reduction in power steering assist when shifting into "Reverse" or "Drive", replace the TR sensor. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Perform normal diagnostics for high steering efforts found in Section 11 of the 1996 Taurus/Sable Service Manual.
2. For a continuous reduction in power steering assist concerin on 3.0l engines when the transmission is shifted into "Reverse" or "Drive", disconnect the harness connection from the TR sensor and retest. If the steering functions correctly, replace the TR sensor (-7F293-).
3. Perform diagnostics for the GEM, refer to the 1996 Taurus/Sable Service Manual, Section 18-04. Observe any codes that have been logged by the GEM. If no codes have been logged, and communication with the GEM functions properly, then replace the GEM with a revised GEM (-14B205-) which has a calibration adjustment. Refer to the 1996 Taurus/Sable Service Manual, Section 13 for replacement details.
PART NUMBER / PART NAME: F7DZ-14B205-AB / Generic Electronic Module (GEM) F7DZ-14B205-BB / GEM (Gulf coast country vehicles) F5DZ-7F293-AA / Transmission Range (TR) Sensor (8-Pin connector) F6DZ-7F293-A / Transmission Range (TR) Sensor (12-Pin connector)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REMOVAL
1. Disconnect battery ground cable. 2. Place manual control lever in NEUTRAL. 3. Remove engine Air Cleaner (ACL) and air cleaner outlet tube. 4. Disconnect electrical connector from Transmission Range (TR) sensor. 5. Remove manual control lever from transaxle. 6. Remove two TR sensor retaining bolts. 7. Remove TR sensor.
INSTALLATION
1. Make sure manual control lever is in the NEUTRAL position. 2. Install TR sensor and loosely install two retaining bolts. 3. Align TR sensor slots using Transmission Range Sensor (MLPS) Alignment Tool T92P-70010-AH. 4. Tighten TR sensor retaining bolts to 9-12 Nm (80-106 inch lbs.) and remove tool. 5. Connect electrical harness to TR sensor. 6. Install transaxle manual control lever. Tighten to 11-16 Nm (98-141 inch lbs.). 7. Install air cleaner outlet tube and engine air cleaner. 8. Connect battery ground cable. 9. Check for proper operation with parking brake control engaged. The engine should start only in PARK or NEUTRAL.
|
Thank you guys for all your help, as soon as I can get a new TR sensor ($69.95 according to alldata through Ford) I will update you guys on replacing it.

You guys are great!
Jeckler
Mar 10 2006, 04:29 PM
Why not save $50 or so and get one from Advance like Linkman suggests?
Firespirit
Mar 10 2006, 06:58 PM
Because I can get it discounted through work. All my parts manager has to do is order it from the Ford dealer and we get 25% off. I already have the part now, and will be installing it this weekend (possibly Sunday).
Jeckler
Mar 11 2006, 08:54 AM
Your loyalty scares me.
Firespirit
Mar 11 2006, 09:08 AM
| QUOTE (Jeckler @ Mar 11 2006, 08:54 AM) |
Your loyalty scares me. |
My loyalty??
Jeckler
Mar 11 2006, 09:51 AM
To Ford. Unless my math is wrong, you're paying twice as much for the same part, even with 25% off. I just don't get it.
Did I miss something? Is yours the 12 pin version?
mykej27
Mar 11 2006, 11:46 AM
| QUOTE (Firespirit @ Mar 11 2006, 06:08 AM) |
| QUOTE (Jeckler @ Mar 11 2006, 08:54 AM) | Your loyalty scares me. |
My loyalty??
|
He means loyalty to your car.
In your repair illustration, why you need to remove the air cleaner tube? Where the heck is the TRS Sensor. I remember in the manual that it discribed the location, but I couldn't ever find it. I wasn't in need of replacing it, so I gave up.
Since I'm going to be doing a transmission rebuild, I need to disconnect it.
Michael
Firespirit
Mar 11 2006, 06:37 PM
| QUOTE (mykej27 @ Mar 11 2006, 11:46 AM) |
| QUOTE (Firespirit @ Mar 11 2006, 06:08 AM) | | QUOTE (Jeckler @ Mar 11 2006, 08:54 AM) | Your loyalty scares me. |
My loyalty??
|
He means loyalty to your car.
In your repair illustration, why you need to remove the air cleaner tube? Where the heck is the TRS Sensor. I remember in the manual that it discribed the location, but I couldn't ever find it. I wasn't in need of replacing it, so I gave up.
Since I'm going to be doing a transmission rebuild, I need to disconnect it.
Michael
|
Since I'm going to do it right now (it's on top of the trans case, btw), I'm doing a tutorial in case anyone else needs to do it.
FizzWhiz1
Sep 8 2008, 06:23 PM
Hey everyone-I was wondering if someone can help me. I just replaced my trs in my 97 gl and I accidently moved it when i installed so it was misaligned I aligned it to the line when i put in on and the reverse lights werent going on when I was in reverse. They i moved the line on the circular dial a little above the line but the reverse lights will only go on if i go from park to reverse or if i go from drive to reverse i have to move the shifter past the reverse mark and then on the reverse mark so they go on. How do I align it correctly if I never marked where the line was when I got it out of the box? Thanks.
Firespirit
Sep 9 2008, 11:44 PM
I am going to guess that it'll be trial and error now that you did not mark the old position.
SHOZ123
Sep 10 2008, 02:20 AM
Shift Control Linkage
The transmission shift linkage adjustments must be performed in the order in which they appear.
Column Shift
Place transaxle range selector lever in (D) (OVERDRIVE) position or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS). A weight of 1.4 kg (3 lb) should be hung on the transaxle range selector lever to ensure the lever is located firmly on the (D) (OVERDRIVE) or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS) detent.
Loosen manual control lever-to-control cable retaining nut.
Move transaxle manual control lever to OVERDRIVE position or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS), second detent from most rearward position.
Tighten retaining nut to 17-23 Nm (13-17 lb-ft). Check operation of transaxle in each transmission range position. Make sure that park mechanism and transmission range (TR) sensor are functioning properly.
Floor Shift
Position transaxle range selector lever in DRIVE position against rearward stop. The floor transaxle range selector lever must be held in the rearward position using a constant force of 1.4 kg (3 lb) while linkage is being adjusted.
Loosen manual control lever-to-control cable retaining nut.
Move transaxle manual control lever to DRIVE position, second detent from most rearward position.
Tighten retaining nut to 17-23 Nm (13-17 lb-ft).
Check operation of transaxle in each transmission range position. Make sure that park mechanism and transmission range (TR) sensor are functioning properly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FizzWhiz1
Sep 16 2008, 04:11 PM
QUOTE(SHOZ123 @ Sep 10 2008, 03:28 AM) [snapback]660456[/snapback]
Shift Control Linkage
The transmission shift linkage adjustments must be performed in the order in which they appear.
Column Shift
Place transaxle range selector lever in (D) (OVERDRIVE) position or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS). A weight of 1.4 kg (3 lb) should be hung on the transaxle range selector lever to ensure the lever is located firmly on the (D) (OVERDRIVE) or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS) detent.
Loosen manual control lever-to-control cable retaining nut.
Move transaxle manual control lever to OVERDRIVE position or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS), second detent from most rearward position.
Tighten retaining nut to 17-23 Nm (13-17 lb-ft). Check operation of transaxle in each transmission range position. Make sure that park mechanism and transmission range (TR) sensor are functioning properly.
Floor Shift
Position transaxle range selector lever in DRIVE position against rearward stop. The floor transaxle range selector lever must be held in the rearward position using a constant force of 1.4 kg (3 lb) while linkage is being adjusted.
Loosen manual control lever-to-control cable retaining nut.
Move transaxle manual control lever to DRIVE position, second detent from most rearward position.
Tighten retaining nut to 17-23 Nm (13-17 lb-ft).
Check operation of transaxle in each transmission range position. Make sure that park mechanism and transmission range (TR) sensor are functioning properly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And is this suppose to help me align it?
SHOZ123
Sep 17 2008, 01:58 AM
No it will not HELP you align it. It WILL align it.
FizzWhiz1
Sep 17 2008, 03:15 PM
Ok thanks. The only step i am not quite understanding is
"Move transaxle manual control lever to OVERDRIVE position or D (DRIVE) position on vehicles equipped with a transmission control switch (TCS), second detent from most rearward position."
What are you pretty much doing for this step? Sorry. Thanks again
Firespirit
Sep 17 2008, 03:19 PM
Put the gear shift into overdrive
mfaerber
Sep 26 2008, 06:02 PM
Hey FizzWhiz, did that fix it for you?
I have am having VERY similar problems with my 98 taurus 3.0L DOHC. I'm going to inspect my TR sensor and maybe replace it tomorrow.
FizzWhiz1
Sep 26 2008, 06:36 PM
QUOTE(mfaerber @ Sep 26 2008, 07:10 PM) [snapback]663818[/snapback]
Hey FizzWhiz, did that fix it for you?
I have am having VERY similar problems with my 98 taurus 3.0L DOHC. I'm going to inspect my TR sensor and maybe replace it tomorrow.
Hey sorry I have not have time to fix the issue...i am going to attempt to fix it this weekend. I'll keep you posted.
FizzWhiz1
Oct 10 2008, 05:56 PM
Ok so I attempted to fix my reverse light issue and it didnt work...i think i did it wrong. Can someone explain the instructions in a simpler way? I know I kind of sound retarted but I am not understanding the directions so well. What I thought the direction meant was to put the car in overdrive, loosen the bolt that connects on the trs with the arm and then make sure the car was in overdrive all the way again and tighten the bolt. Did I misinterpret the directions?
FizzWhiz1
Oct 12 2008, 06:49 PM
I just want to get this fixed bc when i backup from going from drive to reverse the lights dont go on and other cars dont see that which can be an issue.
Qwertz9586
Oct 12 2008, 10:30 PM
You need to hang a three pound weight on the shifter during alignment also.
If the needle on the gear indicator matches up with the detent you feel through the handle, then you aligned it properly. If the lights aren't still coming on it's probably something else.
mfaerber
Oct 16 2008, 09:20 AM
BTW, I replaced my TR Sensor and now the car runs like a dream. Very easy fix.
FizzWhiz1
Oct 17 2008, 08:32 PM
QUOTE(Qwertz9586 @ Oct 12 2008, 11:38 PM) [snapback]667772[/snapback]
You need to hang a three pound weight on the shifter during alignment also.
If the needle on the gear indicator matches up with the detent you feel through the handle, then you aligned it properly. If the lights aren't still coming on it's probably something else.
What do you mean the detent you feel through the handle? Do you mean when the car is on?
IILUMN8
Apr 19 2009, 11:46 PM
QUOTE (FizzWhiz1 @ Oct 17 2008, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (Qwertz9586 @ Oct 12 2008, 11:38 PM)

You need to hang a three pound weight on the shifter during alignment also.
If the needle on the gear indicator matches up with the detent you feel through the handle, then you aligned it properly. If the lights aren't still coming on it's probably something else.
What do you mean the detent you feel through the handle? Do you mean when the car is on?
IILUMN8
Apr 19 2009, 11:57 PM
I have a 1996 Taurus LX w/Duratec & console shift with 160k miles. The trans TRS module was an 11-pin version & replacing it was the fix for my electrical gremlins...intermittent power steering loss, radio out when shifting (worked in "park"), no blinkers & most of the other symptoms I've read in this column. Thank you all for your contribution to my fix. I had my mechanic do the work, as he has been reliable, honest & thoroughly enjoyed the odd repair. Judging from the schematic, the TRS should have had no relationship to the symptoms. Other than replacing a cpu/processor, the car has been absolutely reliable.
Mediarocker
Apr 20 2009, 04:42 AM
Anyone know where i can get this damn part without it costing me $167 from ford? AZ, Advanced, and O'reily's doesn't have it. I've tried ebay, but I haven't been able to get my hands on a cashiers check that and i'm concerned in spending money on ebay items...
NVM, found it on RockAuto for 55 bucks. It was called a "Neutral Safety Switch" rather than a "Transmission Range Sensor"
IILUMN8
Apr 20 2009, 08:49 AM
QUOTE (IILUMN8 @ Apr 20 2009, 09:42 AM)

QUOTE (Mediarocker @ Apr 20 2009, 05:42 AM)

Anyone know where i can get this damn part without it costing me $167 from ford? AZ, Advanced, and O'reily's doesn't have it. I've tried ebay, but I haven't been able to get my hands on a cashiers check that and i'm concerned in spending money on ebay items...
NVM, found it on RockAuto for 55 bucks. It was called a "Neutral Safety Switch" rather than a "Transmission Range Sensor"
My mechanic charged me $105 after his mark-up. It came out of the Chicago area. Mine was an 11-pin switch, he said the 8-pin was more common. That's not to say he made a nice mark-up on the part. I wouldn't buy it used or from a junkyard. The switch just wears out, much like a rotor/cap connection.
SHOZ123
Apr 20 2009, 10:06 AM
8 pin is for the AX4S and 11 pin is for the AX4N.
Sean T.
Apr 23 2009, 10:37 PM
Ashley, did you ever do a tutorial on this? Or should I just use all that text you put up there on the first page?
Your tutorials are seriously great...
maintjoseph
Jun 28 2009, 08:32 PM
Okay, I'm having a wierd problem with my 99 Taurus OHV that seems like it might relate to this thread subject. My cooling fans are only operating while in park. On four seperate occasions I have driven the car without the cooling fans kicking on, but once I pull into a parking spot and shift the car into park, with-in just a few seconds the cooling fans switch on. I have replaced the CTS and the pigtail that connects it (I found a burn mark along the gray/red wire and re-established the connection behind this point to ensure continuity). The fans turn on, but only if the car is placed in park. The fans do not run at stop lights or while waiting in a line of traffic when the coolant is obviously getting hot enough because it steams and overflows from beneath the radiator cap. If I disconnect the sensor so that the fans run continuously, they will run at all times no matter the gear, as long as the key is in the on or run position. All other cooling system components are operating correctly.
SHOZ123
Jun 28 2009, 10:28 PM
QUOTE (maintjoseph @ Jun 28 2009, 08:32 PM)

Okay, I'm having a wierd problem with my 99 Taurus OHV that seems like it might relate to this thread subject. My cooling fans are only operating while in park. On four seperate occasions I have driven the car without the cooling fans kicking on, but once I pull into a parking spot and shift the car into park, with-in just a few seconds the cooling fans switch on. I have replaced the CTS and the pigtail that connects it (I found a burn mark along the gray/red wire and re-established the connection behind this point to ensure continuity). The fans turn on, but only if the car is placed in park. The fans do not run at stop lights or while waiting in a line of traffic when the coolant is obviously getting hot enough because it steams and overflows from beneath the radiator cap. If I disconnect the sensor so that the fans run continuously, they will run at all times no matter the gear, as long as the key is in the on or run position. All other cooling system components are operating correctly.
Speed sensor, PCM or TRS.
maintjoseph
Jun 29 2009, 09:02 AM
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jun 28 2009, 08:28 PM)

QUOTE (maintjoseph @ Jun 28 2009, 08:32 PM)

Okay, I'm having a wierd problem with my 99 Taurus OHV that seems like it might relate to this thread subject. My cooling fans are only operating while in park. On four seperate occasions I have driven the car without the cooling fans kicking on, but once I pull into a parking spot and shift the car into park, with-in just a few seconds the cooling fans switch on. I have replaced the CTS and the pigtail that connects it (I found a burn mark along the gray/red wire and re-established the connection behind this point to ensure continuity). The fans turn on, but only if the car is placed in park. The fans do not run at stop lights or while waiting in a line of traffic when the coolant is obviously getting hot enough because it steams and overflows from beneath the radiator cap. If I disconnect the sensor so that the fans run continuously, they will run at all times no matter the gear, as long as the key is in the on or run position. All other cooling system components are operating correctly.
Speed sensor, PCM or TRS.
Thanks, SHOZ123. The PCM seems to be acting okay, it kicks the fans on in park and kicks the fans on if the CTS is unplugged. I'll look into the TRS and VSS.
SHOZ123
Jun 29 2009, 09:13 AM
CTS=ECT Engine Coolant Temperature??????
SHOZ123
Jun 29 2009, 09:28 AM
If the CTS is the coolant temp sender than it would set a code if the wiring was bad. Unplugging it makes the PCM think it is bad and the PCM then turns on the cooling fans as a failsafe mode.
There are two relays, one for high speed and one for low speed. Do the fans come on when in drive, stopped with the AC on?
maintjoseph
Jun 29 2009, 07:37 PM
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jun 29 2009, 07:28 AM)

If the CTS is the coolant temp sender than it would set a code if the wiring was bad. Unplugging it makes the PCM think it is bad and the PCM then turns on the cooling fans as a failsafe mode.
There are two relays, one for high speed and one for low speed. Do the fans come on when in drive, stopped with the AC on?
Yes, CTS is Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS=ECT). I have not tried stopping with the A/C on (though there is a problem with my A?C- I haven't used it since buying the car as I'm a smoker and just lower the windows. Will this matter?) to test the cooling fans, but they would not kick on while driving (parked at a stop light) or stopped anywhere while in drive. I know the coolant is getting hot enough because after shutting off the engine, there is steam coming from below the radiator cap and coolant overflows from beneath it (the cap). The fans never kicked on until I shifted the car in park. Shifted into park, fans came on, killed the engine, coolant overflowed. I have done a block test and have come up negative for combustion/emission gases in the coolant. If the fans run continuously (which I know is bad for the car), the coolant moves a little with heat soak, but it doesn't ever come close to overflowing. These problems have to be related, I just don't understand how. Where is the high speed fan relay? The big box everyone talks about (The CCRM) was discontinued in 1998-2001 (I don't know about after 2001), and I have a black box with replacable relays mounted on the driver's side of the battery. This contains one large relay (the same size as the larger relays in the Power Distribution box) and six smaller relays (the same size as the smaller relays in the Power Distribution box). What do these relays control? And what do the three relays in my GEM control?
SHOZ123
Jun 30 2009, 12:08 AM
Another possibility is the system is not building pressure due to the tank or cap leaking. The fans won't come on until close to the boiling point of a non pressurized cooling system. The tanks leak on the bottom notoriously. You cannot see it unless you take the tank out and look for cracks.
maintjoseph
Jun 30 2009, 12:28 AM
QUOTE (SHOZ123 @ Jun 29 2009, 10:08 PM)

Another possibility is the system is not building pressure due to the tank or cap leaking. The fans won't come on until close to the boiling point of a non pressurized cooling system. The tanks leak on the bottom notoriously. You cannot see it unless you take the tank out and look for cracks.
Looks like I finally figured this one out. It seems that it was the high speed cooling fan relay, and the reason that it would operate only in park was because it was sticking and the shifting in the engine compartment from drive to park would make it slip free and make contact. I put the relay from the Driver's Side Window into the first large square relay in a relay box (unlabeled and no information in Haynes' or the Owner's Manual, I have another next to the GEM that I don't know what goes into it, nor do I know the other six that go here) located on the driver's side of the battery. The fans started kicking on in every gear (P, R, N, D, (D), and 1). I let the fans cycle several times (about a 30 second duration when stopped-no matter what gear) and drove to the cigarette store. My girlfriend kept the car drive but kept her foot on the brake while I bought the smokes (the fans cycled a couple times while I was inside) and we drove back home. The coolant didn't overflow, but I think I found a crack in my expansion tank. Could help explain all the steam I've been getting. But anyway, it seems things are working now. I'll be checking the ground wires soon... over 104 degrees here today. Thanks for all your help.
EMB2580
Jul 28 2009, 04:57 PM
After talking to a few shops I think I figured out my problem, cheap off-brand TRS sensor that failed prematurely? HOWEVER, I'm NOT having the window/radio/p-s problems. I'm acually having funky shifting/slipping problems. Could it still be the TRS? That IS the code i'm getting. I have also heard if I get a genuine Motorcraft sensor, I more than likely will not need an alignment tool?
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