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Old 06-28-2007, 08:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I was unfortunate enough to get stuck in a parking lot after a loooong day at work due to this concern.
There is a known problem with the 'ign' terminal on the starter. What starts out as an intermittant 'No crank, no start' concern, will eventually lead to a permanent concern.
The terminal connector on the starter will, over time, lose full contact with the terminal. An easy way to fix this is to replace the connector with a 'female' spade plug. Remember to clean the starter terminal while you have the connector off.
It's annoying the first time it happens, and will only drive you nuts the more it happens.
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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another one to watch is your positive/negative terminals in a state or area that has high humidity, snow, sea water et cetera the tend to corrode on the inside giving a not very good connection car could turn on all accessories but will not crank
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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This might be a good area to ask this...

I am still trying to figure out why my car wont start. I have a 1994 ford taurus gl 3.0 OHV with an AXOD auto tranny. 2 months ago, the car would run. The only things wrong were I had a brake line leak (which in the midst of this huge DIY tune up, I replaced all brake lines and proportioning valve to fix that issue (very tough job!) Other than the brakes, I didnt pass DMV inspection cause of slightly too high emissions. Scottis muffler did an engine diagnostic when they put my muffler on a day or 2 prior to the inspection and i remember them saying in particular 2 codes were pulled. 1 was a weak coil (i hope they meant ignition coil cause thats what nI replaced, and not the small coil on the top of the distributor thats by the rotor under the cap) and the other was the EGR DPFE sensor. So I replaced the DPRE sensor. Here is a list for all of you who know alot about cars of what I replaced. Maybe you can tell me what could be the reason for this?

6 new motorcraft spark plugs (yes, they are gapped to .044), Ignition coil, all new distributor wires (6 for plugs to cap and 1 for cap to coil), new distributor cap and rotor, EGR DPFE sensor, PCV valve, Air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, temp switch, both gaskets for the valve covers (rocker arm covers), upper intake manifold (plenum) gasket, thermostat w/gasket, IAC (Idle Air Control) valve gasket (which strangely, it didnt have one before I put one on), brand new positive battery cable, upper radiator hose. Then while the upper intake plenum was off and inside, I cleaned the **** out of it. I sprayed a lot of carb & choke cleaner at the gunk that was caked on the throttle body plate. I sprayed it all inside the intake itself through each 6 of the holes so it would loosen some of the gunk and oil deposits.


Now... The few things I have noticed and then the symptoms. Ready? And here we go! The inside of the Mass Airflow Sensor was clean. The actual sensor mounted on the outside of the steel where the connection goes on has a broken connector locking tab. I doubt its an issue because the connector goes into the MAF sensor and dosnt move. Its just missing the cheap little plastic tab. One other important thing is after nearly everything was replaced, I sprayed the GUNK engine degreaser gel all over the place. At some point, this car had an oil leak and tranny leak. You could barely see the tranny pan cause of the caked on oil. Same with the side of the engine towards the firewall and the right side of the engine (if you are standing in front of the car) near the big bundle of wires and connectors and hoses and then a lot near the bottom of the engine (when both front tires were off and I had a clear view to it all), and lastly the side of the engine at the front of the car by the radiator where my starter & solenoid are (there was ALOT of gunk on the starter and solenoid. You couldnt barely recognize it). I sprayed the crap out of all of it, trying to of course be careful where I was spraying. Let it sit for 10-15 min then I used the hose to get as much as I could off. I am wondering if I messed something up with all the electrical crap when I was rinsing, or if any of the degreaser got on anything. There is a connection on the starter solenoid I was worried about. Obviously its attached to the starter. Well the positive battery cable went on one side of the solenoid and was held on with just a nut. Next to it was some small connector that was a little corroded and had a lot of caked on oil. I have no idea what that is and what it does or where it goes. So those are my worries.


Now comes the symptoms of the car to date. Once I finished replacing all what you saw above, I started reattaching all the other stuff (all the different connections to the sensors, vacuum lines, the throttle cables, any hoses that I removed to get the plenum off, the black air pipe that is attached to the plenum by a clamp where my ( I guess you could say built in throttle body is?), the MAF sensor and its connection, the air filter and its assembly, then finally the battery. After all new parts were on, after all other things were replaced, I took a deep sigh at the work I had just spent a month and a half on (yes, its a long time but it was inbetween mid january and end of march and I was alone so I had to pick the right times to go out to do it) and smiled, especially with all the work I went through with the brake lines (gutting them, re-creating length with new line, finding new and correct brake line fittings, flaring the lines, bending the lines, then finally installing). I sat in the car, turned the key slowly through each process. Got to the on position where the accessories turned on and took a deep breath, AND..... Nothing..... I turned the ignition and the car would turn over but not start. When I turn the key, if I start giving it gas and keep on the gas, the engine will run. The moment i let off the gas, it stalls out. Today I learned that when I gave it gas to keep it on, coolant started to leak and even flew out. That shouldnt be a HUGE problem though. Its coming from the thermostat housing. I am gonna use this new RTV sealant and new gasket and even put teflon tape on each of the 3 bolts cause it looks like the bottom bolt has fluid coming from it. So hopefully that will solve that problem.


If anyone knows by my descriptions of the problem and the parts I replaced, what cpould be the problem, that would be GREATLY appreciated! The first thing mentioned to me was timing. However, I didnt touch the distributor except to replace the cap, nor did I do any work on or near the pulleys (in particular the harmonic balancer where the camshaft is) so I dont see how my engine could be out of time when it was running prior to this tune up. Then someone said camshaft position sensor. I was starting to buy it but after a video or two on youtube and a tiny bit of forum reading, I doubt I have a camshaft position sensor. I have a distributor so from what I hear, there is no need for the CPS. I guess they started those in 1996 when they replaced the distributor? Then I started to hear crankshaft position sensor. I dont have a clue where this is. But even if I knew, would that cause the engine not to start?


Ok, this was long enough. Please let me know of any suggestions cause my next move is giving up on trying to save money from excessive labor charges and getting it towed to this auto shop in Dover to run an engine diagnostic to see if it finds anything. I would go buy an OBD1 scanner but from what I hear, they dont get very detailed as the OBD2 scanners do. And from what I hear, they wont even tell me a code. I have to count the number of times the check engine light blinks and that is the code? Ummm, no.... That has problems written all over it. Ok, im done. Ideas? Thoughts? Prayers?
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxx_powers View Post
There is a known problem with the 'ign' terminal on the starter. What starts out as an intermittant 'No crank, no start' concern, will eventually lead to a permanent concern. The terminal connector on the starter will, over time, lose full contact with the terminal. An easy way to fix this is to replace the connector with a 'female' spade plug. Remember to clean the starter terminal while you have the connector off. It's annoying the first time it happens, and will only drive you nuts the more it happens.
Many thanks for this info! This exactly what has begun happening with my '06 Taurus. Starts perfectly most of the time, and then sometimes there's only a click - no crank, no start. Jiggling the wiring to the starter (I'm not a mechanic) usually gets me started, but that's definitely annoying. All other electrical power works just fine - bright headlights, full power accessories, stereo. It has a new battery, new alternator and new starter, installed before I acquired the car, but maybe all it needed was Maxx's solution! (But I'm not complaining about the new components - didn't add to the nice low price of the car!)

I'm printing out Maxx's message and taking it to my old trustworthy mechanics. (I don't trust the local dealer as far as I can spit.)

Dave
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Change the starter in 30 minutes and you will be good to go. Napa has one for $140 that is the gold line and better than the stuff at Auto Zone. Just my thoughts. 2Bolts and solenoid wires, pretty straight forward and best investment if you are throwing parts at it. Fuel pump could be in question as well. Do you here the fuel pump prime for 2-3 seconds when you first turn key to on position. Check fuel pressure at the rail , should be 35psi or better.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Change the starter in 30 minutes and you will be good to go. Napa has one for $140 that is the gold line and better than the stuff at Auto Zone.
As mentioned above, it has a new OEM starter.
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Fuel pump could be in question as well. Do you hear the fuel pump prime for 2-3 seconds when you first turn key to on position. Check fuel pressure at the rail, should be 35psi or better.
Would a lack of fuel pressure cause the starter to just click and not turn over at all - that's what happens when I have this trouble, which is only about 10% of the time at this point. It sounds just like a starter does when a battery is almost dead - except my battery isn't dead.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Then check all you wires to starter, it is critical to have excellent connections. I missed the part of the new starter, sorry. If your battery is good then the wiring to starter is suspect unless the starters solenoid is bad. When my last starter crapped the bed it would not even turn over. Used a 9 iron to rap on the starter with a few taps. It started after the tapping session, but my next stop was the parts store. I changed it in the parking lot while it was snowing. No problems now. The one connection to the solenoid is critical to be tight and right. If the starter is new I would have it bench tested by the store you bought it at. New could still be bad?? Fuel pressure would not affect the electrical problem. Just did not know if you were confident about the pump or not. Charge the battery to a full charge and go have a load test on it. You can get it load tested for free at most parts stores. The starter draws a lot of amps to get er done. If battery is not fully charged it will give you problems you do not realize. I still think it is your starter or connection.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, Downhill, I think that the wires to the starter are the key. The wiring bundle on the driver's (starter's) side of the engine (from the viewer's perspective), which is tied into the starter wiring, looks as if it's been overheated, melted a bit, which is a smoking gun.

I really doubt it's any battery problem, because it's a new guaranteed battery, and when the starter is working okay (90% of the time), I can start and restart the car any number of times just sitting in the driveway without any noticeable loss of power in the starter - so that tells me the battery is fine.

Besides having my mechanics (I really admire you for being able to change your own starter in a parking lot in the snow!!!) consider Maxx's fix above, you've inspired me to have them do an inspection of this whole bundle of wires. I suspect the dealership to leave something on the verge of needing repair to get me back for more money, but my mechanics are good guys.

Thanks for your time and interest, DH!

David
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Your welcome. Sometimes you do what you have to do. I had back surgery recently and have not worked in a year,I could not really afford a starter, but bought a good one and got it done. When I bought the car last OCT I replaced the main 3 wires. The one from alternator, the one from the starter and the one to the mega fuse. I had some good 4 gauge in my garage and replaced with that. When I cut insulation back on old wires there was corrosion for the first foot on all of them. I am sure that the mechanic should be able to solve without the need of your arm and leg. Good luck and hope to hear about the success in the near future. Sucks to have transportation issues for any reason. Be well~~
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey everyone. I've had this problem a couple of times, but I've also had a rough time starting it other times, where it barely turns over and frequently grinds when it starts. Could all of that be caused by the wires? Or might the starter be going bad? No other electrical problems: new battery etc.
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