Cat Or O2 Problem - Page 2 - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baby SHO@Jan 21 2005, 09:39 PM
Your playing word games.
I'm not playing word games. an Oxygen sensor does just that it monitors the amount of O2 that comes thru the manifold after cylinder combustion, the cat monitor ONLY tells the pcm if it's doing it's job by converting as much of the remaining exhaust into CO2 hence it's TECHNICAL name, it does not perform any other function other than to tell the pcm they are not doing there job and sets a code and pops a light on.

The O2 sensor however in a similar fashion tells the pcm, so it can adjust timing and air/fuel mixture.

The O2 sensor becomes active when the vehicle reaches closed loop operation and thus is a main input for engine operation, the cat monitor only gives info when the drive cycle is completed. Strictly emission related, while the O2 is detrimental in proper engine operation once the engine reaches operating temp. The cat monitor is NOT.

I have never seen in my 11 years working for Ford a cat monitor go bad, if you follow the flow chart for the P0420, it ALWAYS leads to a bad cat.

It becomes chemicaly inactive thus setting the code.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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if i dont replace ANYTHING can anything happen to my car?

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by trojan@Jan 21 2005, 10:15 PM
if i dont replace ANYTHING can anything happen to my car?
Only if the cats clog up, then it can lead to complete shut down or at minimal, a loss of power, if it runs good, don't worry about it. Unless you have emission inspections in your state, then you will FAIL the test and not get your inspection sticker.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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nope no emissions, im just going to leave it alone, if i start haveing power loss, i know my first place to look

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert L+Jan 22 2005, 12:07 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Robert L @ Jan 22 2005, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Baby SHO@Jan 21 2005, 09:39 PM
Your playing word games.
I'm not playing word games. an Oxygen sensor does just that it monitors the amount of O2 that comes thru the manifold after cylinder combustion, the cat monitor ONLY tells the pcm if it's doing it's job by converting as much of the remaining exhaust into CO2 hence it's TECHNICAL name, it does not perform any other function other than to tell the pcm they are not doing there job and sets a code and pops a light on.

The O2 sensor however in a similar fashion tells the pcm, so it can adjust timing and air/fuel mixture.

The O2 sensor becomes active when the vehicle reaches closed loop operation and thus is a main input for engine operation, the cat monitor only gives info when the drive cycle is completed. Strictly emission related, while the O2 is detrimental in proper engine operation once the engine reaches operating temp. The cat monitor is NOT.

I have never seen in my 11 years working for Ford a cat monitor go bad, if you follow the flow chart for the P0420, it ALWAYS leads to a bad cat.

It becomes chemicaly inactive thus setting the code. [/b][/quote]
i know....thus the quote:

Quote:
They are used ONLY to monitor the cats
I checked the flow chart....and yes you are correct, there is no outcome saying to replace the downstream o2 sensor. Odd.... so ford is saying they can never be the cause of the problem? Wow someone messed up when they wrote that flow chart!

Reason i say somthing is I had a Bank 2 Sensor 2 issue a while back on my 2nd taurus. Replaced he downstream o2 sensor and have yet to see the code ever come back (Well, the car did not last much more than a year after that...i kinda totaled it

BTW, not rippin on you, but when you distinctly say they are not o2 sensors, when they are, what is one to think? They are physically an 02 sensor. what the pcm does with the signal is a completly diffrent issue.

Brad
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2005, 11:08 AM
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I had the same code on my Contour (2.5L Duratec, very similar to the Taurus 3L) at 45K miles.

I got all the same answers, but to verify whether the cat or the sensor was bad, I swapped the front and back sensors. Almost 20K miles later, I have not changed the cats or replaced the sensors and the code has not come back.

How would you explain that? I have seen it suggested that the downstream O2 sensors get "lazy" after awhile. By swapping the sensors, I verified that the cat was not the problem... and since no new codes have tripped, I'm satisfied that the sensor was to blame, not the cat.

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2005, 11:20 AM
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1997 PCED OBDII-A SECTION 1A: Description and Operation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Monitor [Oxygen Sensor (O2S) Monitor]
Note: The 1.3L Aspire uses an upstream non-heated Oxygen Sensor (O2S).

The HO2S/O2S Monitor is an on-board strategy designed to monitor the HO2S/O2S sensors for a malfunction or deterioration which can affect emissions. The fuel control or upstream HO2S/O2S is checked for proper output voltage and response rate (the time it takes to switch from lean to rich and vice versa). Except on Aspire, the HO2S heater circuit is monitored by detecting proper voltage change as the heater is turned on and off. Downstream HO2S used for Catalyst Monitor are also monitored for proper output voltage. The illustration below shows that input is required from the ECT, IAT, MAF, MC-VAF for 2.5L Probe, and CKP sensors to activate the HO2S/02S Monitor. The Fuel System Monitor and Misfire Detection Monitor must also have completed successfully before the HO2S/O2S Monitor is enabled. Except on Aspire, some of the HO2S Monitor checks are also performed during on demand self-test.

The HO2S/O2S sensor senses the oxygen content in the exhaust flow and outputs a voltage between zero and 1.0 volt. Lean of stoichiometric (air/fuel ratio of approximately 14.7:1), the HO2S/O2S will generate a voltage between zero and 0.4 volt. Rich of stoichiometric, the HO2S/O2S will generate a voltage between 0.5 and 1.0 volt. The HO2S/O2S Monitor evaluates both the upstream (fuel control) and downstream (Catalyst Monitor) HO2S for proper function.
Once the HO2S/O2S Monitor is enabled, the upstream HO2S/O2S signal voltage amplitude and response frequency are checked. Excessive voltage is determined by comparing the HO2S/O2S signal voltage to a maximum calibratable threshold voltage. A fixed frequency closed loop fuel control routine is executed and the upstream HO2S/O2S voltage amplitude and output response frequency are observed. A sample of the upstream HO2S/O2S signal is evaluated to determine if the sensor is capable of switching or has a slow response rate. Except on Aspire, a HO2S heater circuit fault is determined by turning the heater on and off and looking for a corresponding change in the Output State Monitor (OSM) and by measuring the current going through the heater circuit. The HO2S/O2S Monitor DTCs can be categorized as follows:

The DTCs associated with HO2S/O2S lack of switching are DTCs P1130, P1131, P1132, P1150, P1151 and P1152. For the 1.3L Aspire and 2.5L Probe the DTCs are P0134, P0140, P0154, P0160, P1170, and P1173.

The DTCs associated with HO2S/O2S slow response rate are DTCs P0133 and P0153.

The DTCs associated with HO2S/O2S signal circuit malfunction are DTCs P0131, P0136, P0151 and P0156. The DTCs for the 1.3L Aspire and 2.5L Probe are P0130 and P0150.

The DTCs associated with a HO2S heater circuit malfunction are DTCs P0135, P0141, P0155 and P0161.

The DTC associated with the downstream HO2S not running in on-demand is DTC P1127 (Except 1.3L Aspire and 2.5L Probe).

The DTCs associated with swapped HO2S connectors are DTCs P1128 and P1129 (Except 1.3L Aspire and 2.5L Probe).
The MIL is activated after a fault is detected on two consecutive drive cycles.

Paul Nimz
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