Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum banner

Help needed for troubleshooting a no crank, no start with a click

18K views 44 replies 17 participants last post by  ndtaurus 
#1 ·
Hi all. Thanks for reading. Sorry it's overloaded with questions, I do want to understand everything.
My 2007 Ford Taurus is having a no crank no start condition, only a click from the dash and starter relay.

I did do some maintenance by cleaning my MAF sensor and my throttlebody (with the correct CRC cleaners). I tested it immediately afterward to see if it was idling stable and it seemed to be fine (the car started normally). The next day, all I got was a click from the starter.

I had Autozone test the starter and battery, both were good, though only tested once (but I don't think they're the problem anyway). My battery was charged up by them from 75% to full.

I've also tested the starter relay fuse in the power distribution box and it is good. Are there more fuses below the steering wheel that need to be checked?

I have directly jumped the starter solenoid with 12v while attached to car and it makes a whirring noise, as if only the electric motor started and the charge never seemed to cross from the solenoid to the starter motor and the car never really cranked. Can someone explain why jumping that starter solenoid and moving my key to start was not enough to crank the engine?

I also tried jumping pins 30 and 87 with a paperclip on the starter relay. As far as my multimeter showed, with alligator clips on battery ground and the other clip attached to the pink/green starter solenoid wire ring terminal, no charge arrived at the wire when I connected the two pins (with car in park and key to on). Does this mean the starter relay circuit has a bad connection? Or do I need to either A: make sure I connect a ground to the starter relay pin (in case my NSS or PCM isn't sending the ground signal) or B: attach 12v to the NSS wires that signal it's ok to turn on the car or C: something else (like bash my head into the steering wheel)?


How do I go about testing my park/neutral safety switch? Does anyone have a wiring diagram for my NSS? I have tried jiggling my shifter around while turning key to start and no voltage went to the starter solenoid wire. I have tried starting in Park and Neutral, jiggling with both, but only receive a click

I do not have power going to my starter solenoid wire (the power wire to the starter is fine though, constant 11.8 or so).

The red/light blue starter wire, measured from the back of my ignition switch harness below the steering wheel says 11.8 or so when moving the key to start.

The starter solenoid wire is colored pink/green and it runs into a wiring harness or junction (not sure of the name). I don't get a reading from the back of wire 34 (where it seems the pink/green starter solenoid wire connects in the bottom right corner of the wiring harness box thing).

Also, is there a pink/green starter solenoid wire on the other end of this box or is it that same red/light blue wire that goes into the firewall and connects to my ignition switch harness? Or a few different colors that need testing which connect to the PCM and NSS?

What are my options at this point? What diagnostic procedures have I missed (or forgot to say I did)? Can I make a bypass to start my car? I would especially like one that still requires my key to turn and not opening my hood to access a jumper wire.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I would suspect a bad battery or bad battery cables first followed by a bad starter second rather then all these other components that you are looking at. Just because you get 12 volts when testing a circuit means almost nothing when when it comes to a circuit being able to carry many amps like the starter circuit requires.

The 11.8 volts you referenced in this post are not indicative of a good battery at all. A very simple check might be to see what happens when the try to jump start the car with good high quality jumper cables with heavy gauge wires.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sheila
#3 ·
I also think the battery's output seems low. But when Autozone tested the battery, the results were all good and it was giving an output of 12.6. So maybe my battery terminal connectors or the cables are corroded and need replacing. How do I go about checking this? I have cleaned them both decently well with a wire brush, and made sure they were tightened to the battery terminal. I went and checked the top of the battery terminals again and was getting about 11.78... maybe I need to check with both battery terminal connectors removed to see if that's why I'm not getting 12.6?

I tried doing a voltage drop test by putting the black multimeter lead on the top of the battery terminal and the red on the connector and measuring ohms (at 200). It showed about .3 for both sides, I moved the red around the connector and on the bare wire that shows on the other end of the connector away from the battery and it still showed that power wasn't really being lost from my battery terminal to my battery terminal connectors (I believe).

My starter was also tested by Autozone and it was fine. I also tried directly jumping current to the starter solenoid terminal, but I think I need to use jumper cables instead of the little alligator clips (it burnt some teeth off the alligator clips) and try that again. When I did directly give it power, the starter motor made an electric whirring, so AFAIK, the starter is not bad.

So shouldn't I still be seeing my starter try to crank, but too slow as if it wasn't getting enough power? Instead, I measure my starter solenoid wire and it doesn't receive any power when I turn the key. I can measure my starter pin at the back of the ignition switch wiring harness and it shows the 11.78 volts from the battery when I turn the key. That power is not arriving to my starter solenoid wire at all. Could the poor connection at my battery terminal connectors somehow preclude energy from reaching my starter solenoid wire at all?

I'm not sure what you're saying about the wires not being able to carry the amperage of the starter, can you explain further?

I forgot to mention that I have tried to jump the car with good cables, I received only a click. I did not measure for power at the starter solenoid wire or similar though (I was concerned about doing measurements while jumping, I guess I shouldn't be).

I still would appreciate anyone answering my original questions, in case I perform these battery checks (which I would also appreciate someone explaining how to perform) and it comes back good again. Specifically, the most important questions are: How do I test my NSS? What wires/does anyone have a wiring diagram link for the NSS? What happens to that starter wire at the ignition switch harness when it goes through the firewall? ((Though if someone did take the time to answer all of my questions, I would understand so much more and I would thank them every time my car started))
 
#4 ·
Thank you Tom for your response and time. I changed my positive battery cable (I plan on doing my negative as well) and tried hooking everything back up, to no avail. I still only get a click. I do plan on changing my negative battery cable as well, but I strongly feel that my issue lies with either my starter solenoid cable that is still not receiving power when I turn the key to start, or maybe my neutral safety switch, or whatever else is down the line from my starter solenoid cable that would prevent power from reaching it.

I tried performing some tests again after changing the positive battery cable. jumping the car with heavy duty jumper cables, and received the same click. The car had 13.6 volts while being jumped. The starter solenoid did not receive power.

My car battery still measured 11.8 volts when I fully took the terminal connectors off. Apparently, that means it's a dead battery, but why would autozone have tested it as working fine? Even if it was near dead, there should be some voltage reaching the starter solenoid and it should chug along slowly like it's trying to work (Am I right about that?)
I can't find a wiring diagram for my starting circuit.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The starter solenoid does not click because it doesn't receive power when I turn the key. I tried taking that starter solenoid wire off and measuring it while turning the key and received nothing. That wire should still show that it receives power when the key is turned to start even though it's not connected to the starter solenoid, right? I also tried measuring it while it was attached, and it did not receive power when turning key to start. How could I test to see if I had an internal short in the battery? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the focus be on the wire that does not receive power? My starter solenoid does not click, my starter relay does click.

So as far as I can tell from the diagram, it seems like that starter solenoid wire won't have current until the circuit on the bottom right closes as well. What is that circuit, near where it says 1093 TN/RD and then goes right?
I'm taking my battery to go get tested again tomorrow, I'll make positive they do an amperage draw test as well.
 
#7 ·
A couple of points that you need to understand as far as all the diagnostics with a multi-meter. Reading the voltage on a wire and getting the reading is not the same as testing a circuit under a load. You can have a circuit that will read voltage with no load that is not near good enough to carry enough power under load.


Look at how simple that circuit is at the starter.

On the power side, one wire the heavy one supplies power to the solenoid at all times. The other wire to the starter is switched via the starter relay. When that terminal gets power the solenoid engages and powers the starter.

On the ground side a heave wire supplies the ground to the block.

So I think I would jump with a wire from the battery terminal to the small terminal on starter with the wire disconnected. If the starter does not spin the motor over, you have this down to just a few components. This is no different then how they are tested on the bench.

Lastly 11.8 volts is not right! I have had a number of batteries that read good voltage and will turn the lights on just fine. They will not however crank over a car. Replace a battery and all is good again.
 
#9 ·
Have someone start your car while the headlights are on. Stand in front and observe if the headlights dim significantly ..test the battery with a DVM, measure at the battery terminals while cranking and then move the black lead to another ground point on the engine. You should be above 12v. Measure the ground resistance from battery negative to engine.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I just went through a no-crank situation. Have you checked all of the maxi-fuses in the box near the battery? Specifically the one for the PCM. Mine was a melted/shorted wire near the EGR that was burning out the PCM power supply fuse. Turning the key to on and start looked totally normal as far as dash lights, but all I would hear were faint clicks when turned to start. Another possibility may be the transmission position sensor? It just acts as a pass through so should be easy to determine with a test light.

I just probed wires back until I found power while having my wife turn the key. The issue has to be something between voltage and no voltage. In mine I had power up to the starter solenoid but no ground. This ground is made through the PCM. The wiring diagram helped immensely; I found it through a google image search. Probing this way may help pinpoint it. Hope some of this helps.
 
#13 ·
I'm working on it again on my next day off. I would like to try another starter on it, just to see if anything happens. So far, I don't get a voltage reading on the starter solenoid cable when turning the key. My headlights don't dim either. I'll measure that ground resistance. I did clean my battery terminals. Trying out that a refab starter when I can buy it in a week. I'll also make sure to check my PCM ground and trans relay. I will update, it just might take me a while.
 
#15 ·
Old school wrenching is the screwdriver jump at the starter. That's my load test for the starter.
And that is after the initial "chart test"
 
#16 ·
My cars are so much older than yours, this may not help...but our 1988 Taurus (long since sold) and our '83 Tempo both had this problem, and it turned out to be worn contacts inside the ignition-wsitch module bolted to the steering column beneath the dash. Think about this for a moment...most people turn their key immediately all the way to the stop when starting their car. I always did, until I realized that with wear one can turn it too far. Lately, I turn the key in the Tempo from Ignition S L O W L Y to the Start position, and damned if it doesn't start every time. I was tearing my remaining hair out troubleshooting this; glad I found out by accident before I replaced the battery, starter, what-have-you. I plan to change out the switch module soon, but for the time being knowing this little trick has helped me immensely.

Again, I stress that it's a LONG shot that this could be your problem; but it can't hurt to try it.
 
#17 ·
Lgbpop, I don't think that's my issue, because I can measure my ignition switch starter wire and it gives 12 only when turned to start. The problem happens somewhere along the way, I suppose at the fusebox (afaik, the wire goes from the ignition switch (or smart junction box?) into the TRS, from TRS to the starter relay, to the starter solenoid. Unless I'm missing something or misinterpreting this wiring diagram? http://revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=138184

I attempted measuring at my TRS, but I don't know if I wasn't pushing hard enough, but I couldn't get a reading from any of the contacts for the wires plugged in to the TRS.
I had a mobile mechanic over and he suggested changing out the megafuse, I tried it and nothing changed at all. He suggested the battery was bad again, since it does have a low voltage output reading. I took it to advance auto this time and they checked it, twas good. It has plenty enough amperage to start a car. I've tried jumping the car with the positive battery terminal disconnected from the battery, and only the jumper power going through it. No dice still.

Repairman54, I tried my screwdriver in between starter terminals and I received a "healthy?" electric whir from the motor. Am I doing it wrong somehow? It didn't really sound like it was turning the engine over? Is that how the test is supposed to sound?

A friend did notice that my fuel pump doesn't make a sound when I turn the key to on. I'm wondering if that is a sign that my PCM is damaged. Any other suggestions on reasons that both the starter solenoid wire and the fuel pump would not receive power?
 
#23 ·
Were you trying to probe through the wire insulation? I was, and between cold temps (hard insulation) and numb hands, I gave up on that and pulled the connector. then I had open access to the male terminals in the plug. I was able to find my 12V then, confirming it was getting from the ignition switch to the TRS. I used the ohmmeter to confirm the TRS was functioning properly.

I suppose the fuel pump not coming on could be the PCM as the signal comes from there I believe. However, I've read that PCM failures are relatively rare in these. I was convinced mine was shot, too until I read that and figured I would keep checking other things. Is the 30A fuse that supplies power to the PCM in the underhood fuse box blown? If I recall correctly it was in the upper right corner, when looking at the box from the side of the car standing next to the driver front tire.
 
#19 ·
Starter screwdriver test is the jump from large positive cable to the small wire on the solenoid.
Small wire is the one that energizes the starter solenoid the pull out the starter drive and energized the starter motor at the same time.
 
#21 ·
I went through something similar on my bull, and it turned out to be a dead starter motor...checked/cleaned all the terminals (new battery already fitted), replaced the starter solenoid...nada. Swapped the starter out and Bam! Fired up like new. Even a year or more later, it still turns over like new.
 
#25 ·
Responses to others first:
Ndtaurus - you're going to have to explain that with more words because I'm not following, sorry. Are you saying to jumper my ground at the starter relay? So stick a paperclip in the ground terminal at the starter relay, and then go to terminal 30, or wherever the switch throws voltage when it closes? Or were you saying to do what I did, which was a cable from battery positive to starter solenoid?
My 30A PCM fuse is good. AFA TRS sensor testing goes, I determined that two of the wires were always hot. I'm going back out when my wife gets home today and see if I find ignition voltage when the key is turned to start. Regardless of the TRS's status, I attempted to bypass it, details follow when responses are over.

Response to shawn: I'll also try that when my wife gets home, now that I can get my starter cranking.... I'm almost convinced it's a fuel problem since I don't hear my fuel pump though.
Response to norite: Glad you got yours fixed, bud. Unfortunately, my starter and battery have both been tested good.
Response to repairman54: You didn't tell me if I'm supposed to only get an electric starter motor whir. Will a car normally start, as long as keys are to on position and a jump is made from starter power terminal to starter solenoid terminal?
Response to mike- no theft light flashes at all. Code scan test attempted with two readers, and error'd out (more at bottom of this reply)

So I hotwired a 10 gauge cable from my starter solenoid to near my battery positive. When I touched the end of the wire to the positive battery terminal, my starter will engage, but weakly. The battery is weak from not being run, I supposed, so I jumped it and tried again. This time I get quite a healthy chugging. The engine cranks healthy when power given to starter solenoid, but it does not start still. I also don't hear my fuel pump engaging at any time, when turning the key to on (or to start).
Seems like I got a case of crank, no start... so no fuel or spark are most likely candidates? I believe the test for spark is simple? Can someone run me through it? I do not have a spare spark plug to use.

I checked my fuel inertia switch and it wasn't triggered.

I bought an OBD II scanner and it also could not read my codes (the mobile mechanic tried his when he was over, and wasn't able to read any codes). AFAIK, you have to start your car before it'll send diagnostics sometimes (or is this a sign my PCM is malfunctioning?)???
 
#26 ·
What I did was took a small piece of wire and folded it around the tab on the ground for the coil on the starter relay and pushed it in as normal. I connected that wire directly to ground. It would then crank normally, but not start, leading me to the PCM and burnt out fuse. The fuel pump wasn't turning on on mine either. I think that signal comes from the PCM, so if that's not working for whatever reason the car will not start even with the starter jumpered. Going from positive to solenoid would turn the starter as well, but wouldn't confirm the key switch and TRS are working.

One other thing that may be worth checking is the ground(s) if you haven't already. There is one right bythe PCM that ties to the block on the passenger side. Mine was really corroded so I cleaned up the contact points and replaced it. It couldn't hurt I figured.
 
#27 ·
What I did was took a small piece of wire and folded it around the tab on the ground for the coil on the starter relay and pushed it in as normal. I connected that wire directly to ground. It would then crank normally, but not start, leading me to the PCM and burnt out fuse. The fuel pump wasn't turning on on mine either. I think that signal comes from the PCM, so if that's not working for whatever reason the car will not start even with the starter jumpered. Going from positive to solenoid would turn the starter as well, but wouldn't confirm the key switch and TRS are working.

One other thing that may be worth checking is the ground(s) if you haven't already. There is one right bythe PCM that ties to the block on the passenger side. Mine was really corroded so I cleaned up the contact points and replaced it. It couldn't hurt I figured.
Pic of block diag of the G-4 power. No connection can be weak and things work well. Test for (ground strap; engine to firewall) is remove the battery negative to fender ground from the fender. Turn the HL on and they should be normal. (engine off) You have 2 parallel ground paths. Engine off and all power goes through both. Remove one and this forces all to the other, it should work well with only the engine to firewall. And when the Alt is charging, the ground power is largely from the Alt through the ground strap to the firewall where large part of usage gets it's power. The HL get grounds from the common post in the dash inside.

-chart-
 

Attachments

#28 ·
Both of you are awesome. I'm almost positive I have found the problem.
Here's a picture showing the problem. Firewall Ground Ford Taurus 2007 - Album on Imgur
I thought I had checked all the grounds, but when the passenger side firewall ground was mentioned, I realized I didn't know what you were talking about. So I checked and it appears to just be dangling there, so no ground for my PCM (that is the PCM ground, right? What's its official name?) So I tried replacing with some #14, 3/4'' self-tapping screws and I guess my drill is too ****ty to go through the metal. I'm going back out pretty soon and trying the next step lower, I guess #13, 3/4'' self-tapping screws?

Another thing, I tried putting a jumper cable on that ground and going to ground, and also trying to jump the car with another pair of cables, and it didn't seem to have any effect... I'm not sure if that's just not a valid way to ground that metal or why it wouldn't have worked...

So could that ground cable be causing all my issues? Any recommendations about fixing it or am I on the right track? Thanks everyone for your help so far.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top