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Car dies intermittently

2K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  chartmaker 
#1 ·
Hello everyone, I have a 2003 Taurus SE, Vulcan engine with 190,600 miles. The car is new to me, and I have replaced the plugs, plug wires, and ignition coil so far. The CEL is not on, but I haven't been to the parts store to check for pending codes. The car runs as smooth as silk. Plenty of power, idles smooth, it runs almost like a new car. While going to work the other day, when traffic started to slow on the interstate, I was almost down to 20-30 MPH, and the car died. I tried to restart it, but it wouldn't start back. Got it to the side of the road, and tried a few more times, but it wouldn't start. After 2-3 minutes of sitting, while calling work, and my wife, I tried again, and the car started, but would die after about 5-10 seconds. After another 2-3 minutes, the car would start, and continue to run, until I put it in gear, then it would die. The state DOT help truck stopped traffic, and got me to the right side of the interstate by pushing the car. This took about 5 minutes. After the DOT truck got me across, the car would start, continue running, and I could put it in gear and it wouldn't die. I was able to drive the car to the next exit without any problems, except it died while I was coming to a stop in the parking lot of a gas station. While waiting on my wife, I checked for anything obvious, but couldn't find anything. By the time she got there, (20 minutes or so), the car would start and continue to run. Since I had the wife with me, I decided to try to drive it home. (About 35 miles away). It made the trip without a hitch. This car idles perfect, and runs perfect, I just wanted to see if anyone has any ideas what could cause this, and give me a nudge in the right direction. It seems to be intermittent so far, but I don't want to miss anymore work, or be late to work because of this. I'm thinking it might be electrical in nature, but I'm not sure, and I don't want to just throw parts at it either. Like I said, the CEL is not on, not sure about pending codes yet. I don't have a code reader yet, so I can't check fuel trims or anything like that. Thanks in advance for all the help, David
 
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#3 ·
I was afraid you would say that. Don't know if it's the original or not. I can hear it prime itself from inside the car. The day the engine died, I tried to listen, but you can't hear anything on the side of the interstate during rush hour. I'll wait and see if anyone else chimes in too. I'll probably have to wait till payday to get one anyway. Thanks for the quick reply, David
 
#4 ·
Do you have a scan tool that can monitor PIDs? If so, monitor the fuel pressure PID. Should be around 40 psi during cranking and running. If much lower than that and filter isnt plugged, fuel pump is no doubt failing.
 
#6 · (Edited)
No, I haven't bought a code reader yet. I've been meaning to get one and download Forscan, just havent had the funds yet. Will a fuel pressure gauge that can be rented from Auto Zone work? I don't remember off the top of my head if the 2003 Vulcan fuel rail has a Schrader valve. Also, how much lower than 40 psi?
 
#9 ·
2003 Taurus SE, Vulcan engine, 190,700 miles.
I have an update on this problem, and more info to help with the diagnosis. I did go to the local mechanic who works on all kinds of cars, and has been doing this for many, many years. I told him what it was doing, and he told me it was the fuel pump. He has replaced many of them on bulls over the years which fixed the problems. I then went to Harbor Freight and bought the cheap fuel pressure tester. After finally getting it hooked up, it read 33-35 psi. I didn't know if I should trust the reading because the gauge started filling with gas, and leaked a little. With the info from the mechanic, I bought and installed a NOS Ford fuel pump and new filter, tried the gauge again, and got the same reading, but it again started filling with gas, so I didn't trust the gauge. Tried driving the car to work, the same thing happened. Traffic slowed, and the car died. It did restart, and ran well, but it would die every time I had to stop. The CEL is not on, car runs smooth and idles well. Plenty of power, no misses.

Here's what I have learned so far:

1. This only happens after driving at interstate speeds for a few minutes. Local stop and go driving is fine, no problems.

2. The car only dies when I come to a stop, or slow down a lot.

3. When the car dies, it will only restart if I turn the switch to the off position first, then try to start. If I leave it in the run position, and try to restart, it won't.

4. If I drive at speeds of 45-60, such as on a 2-lane road, no problems.

5. When I leave for work, it's late afternoon, temps in the high 80s to mid 90s. When I drive home in the mornings, it has never died on me. Temps in the upper 60s to low 70s. This is after the car sits a little over 12 hours.

I hope that I didn't buy a pump that is bad out of the box, but it is possible. Does anyone have any ideas? I though it may be an electronic part getting too hot and failing, but if that were the case, I would have to wait for the part to cool sufficiently before it would restart, the car restarts immediately after it dies. Any and all help is welcomed. Thanks again to everyone on the forum for all the help so far.
 
#10 · (Edited)
2003 Taurus SE, Vulcan engine, 190,700 miles.
I have an update on this problem, and more info to help with the diagnosis. I did go to the local mechanic who works on all kinds of cars, and has been doing this for many, many years. I told him what it was doing, and he told me it was the fuel pump. He has replaced many of them on bulls over the years which fixed the problems. I then went to Harbor Freight and bought the cheap fuel pressure tester. After finally getting it hooked up, it read 33-35 psi. I didn't know if I should trust the reading because the gauge started filling with gas, and leaked a little. With the info from the mechanic, I bought and installed a NOS Ford fuel pump and new filter, tried the gauge again, and got the same reading, but it again started filling with gas, so I didn't trust the gauge. Tried driving the car to work, the same thing happened. Traffic slowed, and the car died. It did restart, and ran well, but it would die every time I had to stop. The CEL is not on, car runs smooth and idles well. Plenty of power, no misses.

Here's what I have learned so far:

1. This only happens after driving at interstate speeds for a few minutes. Local stop and go driving is fine, no problems.

2. The car only dies when I come to a stop, or slow down a lot.

3. When the car dies, it will only restart if I turn the switch to the off position first, then try to start. If I leave it in the run position, and try to restart, it won't.

4. If I drive at speeds of 45-60, such as on a 2-lane road, no problems.

5. When I leave for work, it's late afternoon, temps in the high 80s to mid 90s. When I drive home in the mornings, it has never died on me. Temps in the upper 60s to low 70s. This is after the car sits a little over 12 hours.

I hope that I didn't buy a pump that is bad out of the box, but it is possible. Does anyone have any ideas? I though it may be an electronic part getting too hot and failing, but if that were the case, I would have to wait for the part to cool sufficiently before it would restart, the car restarts immediately after it dies. Any and all help is welcomed. Thanks again to everyone on the forum for all the help so far.
Your car has a fuel pump module that gives the pump the proper volts, and the system measures the pressure. A reading device will give you the pressure from the OBDII port. If the PCM cannot do what is needed you will get a code. A fuel pump issue, or module issue will set a code. Pic of data from my Carchip.

Having to turn the key off and back on sounds more like a security key issue.

Fuel loss issue does not just sudden quit. It stumbles and shakes a bit and just slowly dies out. Yep, been there.

-chart-
 
#12 ·
PATS will NOT cause a running engine to die. The only function of the PATS system is to not allow the car to start if it does not see the correct code on the RFID chip in the key.
 
#13 ·
PATS will flash the theft light in an attempt to start with out a chip read by the coil around the tumbler. I have a non working chip but key cut to fit by Ford. It flashes the theft light, no starter activity. There is a bulletin about ign key sticking and not getting the electric switch in full "on" position. There is a pair of codes with that issue. One is P and the other U code. I had that with my Lin Cont and it was the switch that the key engages to tell the car there is a key in the slot.

I have had 3 Bulls have fuel pump fail, all at starting. They start normal but then stumble and choke down. Last one backed out of my driveway into the street then stumbled and choked when I went to go forward. Then dead. In that case when you crank the engine it acts like it wants to start but can't quite get it going. Not at all like no ignition.

-chart-
 
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