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advice on rusted in water pump bolt removal

9K views 35 replies 8 participants last post by  frodiggs 
#1 · (Edited)
UPDATE - THIS BOLT WAS SUCCESSFULLY REMOVED (SEE POST #14) AND MY NEW PROBLEM ON POST #15 (PAGE 2).

Well I've found my way into the rust belt in replacing this water pump.

This smaller bolt head snapped off near the entry of the water pump. Got the pump off but left with the stub of a bolt. So far I've PB Blasted it, knocked it with a hammer, added a nut and tightened it down and torched it a bit adding wax to lube the threads.

Removal tool is a cheap vice grip (10) but the bolt metal seems soft (see stripped threads) and does not get the best of grips.

So options D drill it out and E spot weld a nut on are a bit out of my reach- maybe i can rent an angled drill. I guess next is to get a proper vice and trying to get any movement on the bolt or redrill into the bolt?

Any advise is appreciated! TIA
 

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#3 ·
funny you say that. Patience paid off on the other larger bolt that was rusted in as well. Day 3 it started to move, but I had a bolt head to work with...
 
#4 ·
I think I would start a good pair of vice grips and try working it back and forth not just trying to turn it out as my first method.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I would smack the head of the bolt with a hammer a few times. That may help loosen the rust. Is it in cast iron or aluminum? Also when you apply heat dont apply it to the bolt apply it to the surrounding area. Heating the surrounding area will increase the hole size, loosening it where as if you heat the bolt you are tightening the fit.
 
#6 ·
Use a 50/50 mix of acetone and old ATF and spray it onto the bolt at the block. Repeat a couple of times over a day or so and let it soak in. PB Blaster isn't all it's cracked up to be. Also, get a pair of genuine ViseGrips and crank them down as tightly as you can on the bolt. Turn CW a bit first, then CCW. Keep working it back and forth.
 
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#7 ·
Thanks all,

My vice work was in fact slowly back and forth a tiny bit but a few times i did test a small turn. Not sure if the block is alu or iron ('00 flex OHV). Getting some Irwins (now China) today but ideally I hear the Grip-On's (Es) are better or Facoms $$

I'm also not entirely sold on PB, would love to get my hands on some Kano Kriol or Monolex Penetrating Oil and Lubricant 2059 by lubrication engineers but it's a step up from my WD40 for sure. I'll try the home mix.

I did heat the bolt to add the wax but i heard the bolt shrinks after cooling. I've seen contradicting detail online on area vs bolt heating.
 
#8 ·
the goal in heating is to break the rust bond by thermal expansion and shrinkage, it doesn't matter if it's the bolt or the area around it (the bolt will be the ideal choice since it's less material to heat) Once this rust bond crack then a penetrating oil or wax will also aid in loosening it further.
 
#9 ·
That 50/50 mix was used in a survey of penetrants another member posted here a year or two ago. (Wish I could find it again.) It actually worked better than any of the commercial products tested.
 
#12 ·
Thanks,

I saw this recently. While I love CF, the testing method is def low tech science. My thing with the mix is that acetone evaps so quickly I wonder what you're left with after a dose on the bolt. I heard the original blend used trichloroethylene which does mix with ATF. In any event whatever works! I have some Kroil on order and am heating and applying penetrating oil daily and will give it another wiggle later today.

On the heating, is the BernzO propane able to get the metal hot enough? Neighbor offered to use his torch, can't recall if it was Oxy or MAPP.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Guess I'm not a Jedi quite yet.

Realized when cleaning the block that another smaller bolt was not in fact a smaller bolt but a sheared off bolt.So for my 3rd and final test I get this.

What's next? Drill it out with a close quarters drill and a left handed drill bit?
 
#18 ·
Guess I'm not a Jedi quite yet.

Realized when cleaning the block that another smaller bolt was not in fact a smaller bolt but a sheared off bolt.So for my 3rd and final test I get this.

What's next? Drill it out with a close quarters drill and a left handed drill bit?
The way that broke of so clean, threads likely too bound up for "easy out". Likely have to drill into it and tap it for another size bolt.

-chart-
 
#19 ·
chartmaker - Was afraid you might say that. I'm inclined to try to drill it out with a left hand drill bit and close quarters reversible drill first however. Got my Kroil yesterday:). I'm weary of easy out however as i hear they can snap off and then you have bigger problems.

If I do this should i be concerned about drill amps (>3.2A) or drill gear quality (magnesium?), drill bit metal type? Is the HF Chicago Electric junk?

I'm pretty good at doing research and there's great guides online. Curious about easier paths of resistance or even if i can put this pump on minus this one screw and increase torque on the nearby screws?
 
#20 ·
I bought these because the are short to fit in the tight space. They are cobalt steel to cut into harden metals but they are more expensive than HF left handed drills but they are shorter. Center punch and drill away. Drill doesn't have to be very powerful because drill bit will be sharp and small in diameter

 
#21 ·
As much as I dislike doing the front cover gasket, I think I would pull the front cover and do that on the drill press.
 
#23 ·
:( Ugh...

Is that where the pump is bolting into? I do not have a drill press. Further as i mentioned before can one go without this one bolt [albeit a missing bottom bolt working against gravity].
 
#22 · (Edited)
Yep. did some reading last night and saw the good reviews on the Irwins. Seems the bit, extractors you should NOT skimp on.

I just realized I need a short center punch as well as my "3> punch gives me no room to use my hammer. Will an auto center punch work on the block (2000 Flex OHV = Vulcan = Iron?)

https://www.amazon.com/Rennsteig-Ad...&qid=1468004815&sr=8-33&keywords=center+punch

Plan was to get this drill with the keyed chuck. I heard they keyed chuck will allow be to torque the grip better. 3/8 in. Variable Speed Reversible Close Quarters Drill
 
#24 ·
yep, this is not fun at all. I'm on a jeep forum and most 4.7l v8 guys has this same issue with bolts breaking when they remove the thermostat housing. talking about a 30min job turned into weeks looking for the right tool (space is an issue) Good luck..
 
#26 · (Edited)
I for one would not trust going without that one bolt, and certainly wouldn't overtorque other pump bolts to compensate. You'll end up with more broken-off bolt heads. Tom's right. Pull the cover and drill the bolt out properly. Even though the small bolts only go through the cover and not into the block, you'll have fits if you don't drill perfectly true for the replacement bolt.

By the way, PLEASE update your vehicle info in your User Profile! It's a pain having to check the whole thread every time I come back to it just to find out what already should be there. My memory isn't what it used to be.:(
 
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#30 ·
I get what he is saying. First take the broke stub of the bolt and drill a small hole through it lengthwise. That stub is going to become a guide or sleeve to help guide the drill bit when drilling the part that is broken off and left in the front cover. Put the water pump on and insert the drill guide you made out of the broken part of the bolt with the head to guide the bit.

Same principle as this.
 
#31 ·
If that's the case, then I hope it works for the op. Those bolts are small-diameter, and trying to use EZ-Outs is a crapshoot. Getting the proper bite in a hole that small will be a challenge.

I'd still feel better, pulling the cover even with all that entails. Check the timing chain while in there.
 
#32 ·
The hope that I would have, by using a left handed drill, it acts as an easy out the minute you start drilling. I have drilled out the infamous rear strut pinch bolt that way.. Used the broken head as a centering guide and a left handed drill. It backed out by itself as I drilled it. I have done three TC replacements and they are a pain to do and take at least eight plus hours. If the bolt doesn't back out then he will have to drill out the remaining thread sections and helicoil inserted. Also the bolt does not go all the way through the TC and into the timing chain area. It is a blind hole. If it got down to pulling the TC then I would consider a replacement cover. I had to use two on the three I did because of pitting on the rear coolant port.
 
#33 · (Edited)
All,

Was away on a mini vaca this weekend but back. Updated my sig and details as well.

TO BE CLEAR- The larger bolt stub in post 1 is OUT with patience, heat, wax, PB Blaster and a decent set of Chinese Irwins. My current situ is a bolt next to it (see attached pic and post #15) where the bolt was sheared off with nothing sticking out. I have the all the bolts and broken boltheads.

I'm actually learning and buying the proper tools as I go. For the sheared off bolt below I've been heating (butane), tapping the bolt edges with a hammer and punch (on an angle) and a and adding Kroil in the hopes of using left hand drill bit.

I'm at a crossroad here on next steps however based on the advice. I don't have a drill press.

Again thanks for all the help here.
 

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#35 ·
Hope is a figure of speech. That is why they make left handed drills unless you don't understand what left handed drills are. They are made purposely for drilling out broken studs and usually the fact that they drill in the bolt loosing direction the bolt will back out..

I don't understand why you think these bolts go through the TC and can be reached from the rear of the TC. They don't, they are blind tapped and can only come out the front. Also it has to come out with a left handed drill or an extractor inorder to get all the thread portion from the thread aluminum socket. If you just drill out the broken stud you will have to drill the alumimum threads also and install an helicoil.

Lastly, we have no idea of the skill level of the OP and if he is capable or has the tools to do a TC gasket replacement. It is a lot of work if you drop the Y pipe to do the oil pan gasket right. And also timing chains on Vulcans last the lifetime of the engine or car whatever comes first. All my Vulcans had the original chain at approx. 245k miles when I got rid of them for other reason.
 
#36 ·
Hi All,
Long time but I'm back on this. I think the smaller M6 bolt on the bottom is too rusted in to reverse it out so I'm going to drill it out with a cobalt bit and tap hopefully the same size.


I'm soaking the good bolts in Kriol and will look to get 2 M6 bolts from HD. For the broken off bolt seems i can start with 1/8 bit, assume the thread size is but not sure the thread size on the M6. Do I drill up one more bit size then do the tap?


I'm searching online on sizes and getting a bit confused. I see a M6 thread diam is 1mm pitch but not sure the tap size I need but found this reference - www.littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapdrillsizes.pdf


and get the metric tap and die kit? - 40 Pc Carbon Steel SAE Tap and Die Set
 
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