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Name that noise

3K views 20 replies 8 participants last post by  tbm3fan 
#1 ·
So I have gone through everything. Heads removed in order to look everything over from both sides. Nothing amiss. Pulled off the timing cover and oil pan to check gear and rods. Nothing amiss. Fill engine up with fluids and let sit a few days in case any leaks. None.

Started up just now and had my camera ready in case I heard that noise again which I did. Actually somewhat louder rap/tap in person than in the video. Yet now what is the cause of this particular noise which sounds like a one off rather than two of or four of.

View My Video

View My Video
 
#2 ·
It's a longshot but did you check all the pulleys for play? If you've been through everything already it might be worth a look. The noise doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard, and the frequency seems too fast for some sort of internal problem, especially since the engine seems to be running fine.
 
#3 ·
I agree that the rate of the noise seems too fast for internal. I think I might pull the belt and start it and try starting it with one plug out at a time.
 
#4 ·
Check flex plate since your had the oil pan off and everything looked ok in there.
 
#5 ·
The noise was there before I pulled the oil pan so flex plate is out. Checked the cam synchronizer just in case but smooth as silk. Will run tomorrow night with the belt off.
 
#6 ·
Removed belt and ran car.No doubt the noise is from the engine. Ran it three times at 10 seconds, 10 seconds and 20 seconds. The first two times the noise was faint and after turning the car off I could hear a faint tap like sound as if you were tapping the lid of an empty tin can. Tough to pin location but sounded most obvious when my ear was on the upper intake. On the third time the louder tap was present and by placing my hand on the two valve covers and the upper intake it was the upper intake where I felt vibration. After that run there was no further light tapping after being turned off. Very puzzling as to where it is coming from and the cause. Yet came on very sudden.
 
#7 ·
I guess my next ploy would be to do some searching with a stethoscope.
 
#8 ·
I was just talking to my brother before he went onto the floor at United Airlines. Long time mechanic of everything and he said do you have a stethoscope. Yeah, but it is a medical version.

Anyway, he asked if I went through running the car with a spark plug disconnected. Yes, and the noise was always there. Asked if it was an exhaust leak and I really don't think so. So his suggestion was to either run 1 qt. of Rislone or 1/2 qt. Marvel Mystery oil for awhile to see what happens. If a lifter wasn't pumping up then the lifter and pushrod are hitting each other. That should be interesting since you can hear the noise from 20ft. easy.
 
#10 ·
So I listened to the noise a few more times after doing that I think it is actually more in time with the RPM. When you had the heads off did you take off all the valve springs and check each valve for free movement and such? I have had the heads off two vulcans. The most recent was for a bent valve on the 00 I got for cheap barely running. The other was on an 88 that had a defective from the factory piston where the piston skirt was all all gouged up from machining as best I could tell and it had piston slap. Going just by the video I think your noise sound more valve train like as it is more tap then a knock.
 
#11 ·
Been running the engine with Platinum Plus 5-30 and 1 pint of Marvel Mystery Oil. Maybe it is a tad quieter but still audible. Not going to drive it but only let it run in the drive way. Noise is from #1. Will give it a week before pulling the intake and replacing the lifter.
 
#12 ·
Whoa, a another noise now in the background. This noise is clearly a chirp along with the tap. Was running the car for about 15 minutes and then went in to move it backwards 15 feet, and as doing so, the chirp noise started. I could hear it in the car despite the tapping noise. Ok, so maybe that smooth spinning synchronizer isn't so smooth. Yet, is it the cause of the tapping along with the chirp. Well, I'll find out in a few days.
 
#13 ·
Sounds like valve train noise, stuck or collapsed lifter, maybe, but it's hard to tell.

What I can't tell from the vids is how fast the engine is running; seems like normal idle speed, there may be some advantage to getting a good RPM reading to count click frequency.

I count about 10 clicks per second or 600 per minute, seems like about 1x engine speed which disagrees with one lifter click per two revs, but lifters load and unload, so who knows?

Does the No 1 plug electrode/insulator color look much different than the others?

Back in the dark ages, I once dropped a washer into the intake manifold of an engine and wound up with a bent piston skirt. These were so called slipper pistons with almost no skirt and long tails that may not be used by anyone now and it made a loud clacking noise for a few seconds when the throttle was lifted. Sounded like amplified valve train noise, rather loud and until I disassembled the engine and found the washer, thought it was a valve train problem.
 
#14 ·
Well not a lifter. All were removed, soaked in gasoline to clean and checked for function. All pushrods normal and all rockers normal yet engine still makes the same loud sound. Have definitely isolated it to the area around cylinders # 1 and 2 with a stethoscope. No tapping under front valve cover detected nor at the #3 end of the back cover. Leaves a valve as my next step I guess.
 
#16 ·
Yep, still dealing with the engine. So what has been confirmed so far. All lifters are good, All pushrods are good. All rockers are good and correctly seated as per the manual. All valves and valve springs are good. No internal damage to any combustion chamber. No damage or marks on any of the pistons. Cylinder walls all good. Turning over engine by hand via crank pulley, with intake off, and there are no restrictions or sounds from the valve train. Everything in the top half of the engine has been gone over and is now pristine.

Nonetheless, the audible tap/whack is still there as I just ran the car after finishing up the top half of the engine. The sound, by ear, seems to almost emanate from the whole top half of the engine but maybe a little more towards the front. A stethoscope does eliminate the back of the engine where the bell housings mates. Putting the scope on the exhaust ears of bank 4-6 is fine. Putting it on bank 1-3 you can hear tapping stronger at #1 but nothing at #3 but I know #1 is good. Putting it on the timing cover one picks up all kinds of sounds. The whir of the gears and a tap/whack mixed together. Yet I was already in there and saw nothing that said there was interference from metal on metal. The set was changed out 15,000 miles before this yet all this happens after a routine oil change and back valve cover removal for a few minutes. Not as though I haven't done that stuff before.The whole time the engine runs smooth and has yet to throw any kind of engine code and I have watched the live data stream showing normality.

One more time and more audible

View My Video
 
#17 ·
Yep, still dealing with the engine. So what has been confirmed so far. All lifters are good, All pushrods are good. All rockers are good and correctly seated as per the manual. All valves and valve springs are good. No internal damage to any combustion chamber. No damage or marks on any of the pistons. Cylinder walls all good. Turning over engine by hand via crank pulley, with intake off, and there are no restrictions or sounds from the valve train. Everything in the top half of the engine has been gone over and is now pristine.

Nonetheless, the audible tap/whack is still there as I just ran the car after finishing up the top half of the engine. The sound, by ear, seems to almost emanate from the whole top half of the engine but maybe a little more towards the front. A stethoscope does eliminate the back of the engine where the bell housings mates. Putting the scope on the exhaust ears of bank 4-6 is fine. Putting it on bank 1-3 you can hear tapping stronger at #1 but nothing at #3 but I know #1 is good. Putting it on the timing cover one picks up all kinds of sounds. The whir of the gears and a tap/whack mixed together. Yet I was already in there and saw nothing that said there was interference from metal on metal. The set was changed out 15,000 miles before this yet all this happens after a routine oil change and back valve cover removal for a few minutes. Not as though I haven't done that stuff before.The whole time the engine runs smooth and has yet to throw any kind of engine code and I have watched the live data stream showing normality.

One more time and more audible

View My Video
Have not read all but: did you remove the belt to be sure it is inside the engine and not belt driven things? Does not sound like a valve train noise. Too fast.

-chart-
 
#18 ·
Yes, the engine has been ran with the belt off. No effect just the same ratatatat on start up. Looks like the timing cover will come off again the take a very close look at the timing chain. Everything on the top end has been confirmed good yet the noise could also be the sound of something rotating and whacking something else.
 
#19 ·
One more time back out to the car. Not too many things to look at that either rotate in an engine or go up and down. I know all pistons are fine, all combustion chambers are fine, all valve springs have been checked, all push rods are fine, all lifters are clean and 100% and the engine rotates by hand while watching the valve train for any abnormalities and there were none. Timing cover was off looking for any scratches or nicks in the cover and it was clean. Chain was a new Cloyes with 10,000 miles. The bottom of the oil pan was clean. All pulleys spin normally.

One thing I did notice last week was when moving the car. The tapping is pronounced while sitting in idle but once the car was put into drive the tapping became quite muffled. In idle the tapping sounds the same no matter the rpm only faster. In drive the sound dropped to a low tick which wouldn't seem to be due to the rpm dropping a little. Should have been a louder tap but just slower. What else is turning in the car? Torque converter? Starter engaging flywheel? Seems I'll be going under the car to pull the access plate off the bell housing and take a look inside while rotating the engine. Would be tempted to run the car while under but with only two jack stands I don't know how safe that would be even though I could see the rotation in action.
 
#20 ·
Take a look at the flex plate and torque converter bolts. Bolt could be loose or flex plate cracked.
Could have spun a rod bearing, they will quiet down some with heat expansion.
 
#21 ·
Well flex plate and torque converter bolts are fine. Don't believe bearings as th engine has no time to heat up since I put it into drive immediately after starting. Ran it for two minutes so I could be under the car and as always the noise seemed from there, but then from the top, no from the right side, no from the left side, pretty much everywhere. Then when in drive it quieted down and became just a little irregular with no definite beat as when it idle at a higher rpm. Then I heard the sounds of something that seemed like scraping from the right side. I'll take a look but my patience is wearing thin and then will most likely junk a perfectly good car body, interior, suspension, and upper engine wise by next weekend.
 
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