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Blown Head gasket

13K views 91 replies 20 participants last post by  Tanker71 
#1 ·
Happy New year to everyone! I would like to gather everyones thoughts on a problem I am having. Still very new here so please let me know if i got something wrong.

I received as a gift a 2000 Ford Taurus with the 3.0 Flex fuel engine ( I am assuming its a vulcan) two months ago, It had been badly neglected but overall a good car.

I dropped the car off with the local Ford dealership to have some outstanding recalls taken care of, a coolant flush and a oil change done. While giving my keys the car shot out antifreeze on the ground.

I got the phone call today telling me the head gasket is blown and would be better off replacing the engine, they are not doing the coolant flush as it may cause more problems.

The antifreeze looks like rusty chocolate milk and clumps of rust have appeared on the radiator cap and I had been wiping and flushing the cap off. the car had only 2 quarts of engine oil when I checked it upon getting it home when I received the car in November and I topped it off. gauge never ran to the hot side and since I was leery of the antifreeze I kept the heat on at all times in the car. It has gurgled after a long trip when I have shut it off. Sometimes the car is difficult to start if that may help. Prior to this I was driving a 1989 Plymouth Reliant for 8 years and I am not familiar with such a fancy car. I am still reading through the forums to gather some information to make a educated decision. Car is at 173, 945 miles

My questions would be:
1. Is it worth getting this fixed ?
2. what should I ask Ford dealership upon retrieving the car?
3. What would you do in my situation/ your experiences?

Thank you to everyone in advance for your time and thoughts.
 
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#2 ·
Here are a few thoughts to set the ball rolling....... How good is the rest of the car? You seem to indicate that it's pretty good. If the car was free and the rest of the car is in good shape, I'd be inclined to look into doing the work.

If it is indeed the head gasket (and it looks like you do have some oil/water mix) then it might be economical to fit a goo used engine. Do you have an independent local mechanic you trust? I wouldn't go back to the Ford dealership: no disrespect to them, but if you're looking into doing this on a budget then they're not the right place.

Ask them if they did a pressure test (the answer will likely be no). Was there any water in the oil? You say it didn't overheat: did you ever see a lot of steam/water vapor coming from the tailpipe? In the cold weather however a certain amount comes from even the healthiest car on startup. Was it running rough?

I'd certainly look into this further. A few hundred spent on a good used motor means you get a good car for a few hundred bucks, assuming the rest of the car's in decent shape. That's gotta be a good deal, even if it's not quite as good as free.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thanks for the response, it is something to think about,
Right now the car is absolutely useless to me as I would not be able to drive it , unless I want to play with the power seats and mirrors for amusement. I have a 1996 Contour that makes a better shed than transportation.

I will ask about the pressure test when I pick the car up tomorrow. The lady I spoke with did say it was leaking quite a bit of antifreeze out and that is what alerted them to it.
It had been acting like it was misfiring a little bit and the car was sluggish, but that could be from any number of things.
Body and interior is decent considering it was infested with cockroaches at some time. I really cannot answer about the exhaust.
 
#4 ·
Happy New year to everyone! I would like to gather everyones thoughts on a problem I am having. Still very new here so please let me know if i got something wrong.

I received as a gift a 2000 Ford Taurus with the 3.0 Flex fuel engine ( I am assuming its a vulcan) two months ago, It had been badly neglected but overall a good car.

I dropped the car off with the local Ford dealership to have some outstanding recalls taken care of, a coolant flush and a oil change done. While giving my keys the car shot out antifreeze on the ground.

I got the phone call today telling me the head gasket is blown and would be better off replacing the engine, they are not doing the coolant flush as it may cause more problems.

The antifreeze looks like rusty chocolate milk and clumps of rust have appeared on the radiator cap and I had been wiping and flushing the cap off. the car had only 2 quarts of engine oil when I checked it upon getting it home when I received the car in November and I topped it off. gauge never ran to the hot side and since I was leery of the antifreeze I kept the heat on at all times in the car. It has gurgled after a long trip when I have shut it off. Sometimes the car is difficult to start if that may help. Prior to this I was driving a 1989 Plymouth Reliant for 8 years and I am not familiar with such a fancy car. I am still reading through the forums to gather some information to make a educated decision. Car is at 173, 945 miles

My questions would be:
1. Is it worth getting this fixed ?
2. what should I ask Ford dealership upon retrieving the car?
3. What would you do in my situation/ your experiences?

Thank you to everyone in advance for your time and thoughts.
If the car has always been housed in VA you will not have rust issues. North of mid PA and best check carefully, it it terminal.

If you have to pay for repairs vs doing your own, a 15-16 year old car is not worth the cost. The flex fuel engine is special and somewhat orphan. JY engines are common but you would have to have exact replacement.

Just my op.
Rust Belt experience here.

-chart-
 
#5 ·
If you have to pay for repairs vs doing your own, a 15-16 year old car is not worth the cost. The flex fuel engine is special and somewhat orphan. JY engines are common but you would have to have exact replacement.


-chart-
Sound advice. About to pull heads on mine and if paying a shop it would be whole different decision then me doing the work.
 
#6 ·
Gentlemen, Thank you very much for your advice and thoughts, The age of the car and the special engine is a huge factor with this, I am curious to hear from anyone who has resurrected their car and how its going now?

Happy New year!!
 
#7 ·
Here is the latest, Just got the car back, All the recalls were done; New fuel pump installed, front coil spring protective shield, and the stop lamp switch and wire replaced. Did the oil change and a inspection of the car, so at least if I have to drive it I get get by. They also did a pressure check to verify the head gasket condition, it did not take long for the car to spike in pressure and shoot out more antifreeze, Apparently I had lost quite a bit. But since it has that overflow bottle , I cannot look directly into the radiator to check it myself :-(. Based on the conversation I had with the Ford mechanic, this explains the rust clumping and the gurgling sounds I would see/ hear off and on since I got the car, The head was probably blown long before I got the car. Ford said they would do a engine swap but with the age and the specific engine of the car it would not be worth it and have something else go wrong with it later on.
 
#8 ·
Well, at least they confirmed their diagnosis properly. If it were my car I'd still price it out: get a local independent mechanic to quote for the head gasket work or fitting a good used engine. If you got the car free and the rest of the car is good, what else could you get for the price of the motor work or a replacement used motor? Even if it costs $1000 (Which IMHO I don't see it should), what else could you get for that price? In my area the scrap car would fetch another $200, which would leave $1200 for another car. Not much, unless of course you know where to get another free car.

Just my thoughts. I understand the point of view from those who are advising you to scrap it, but that's not a decision I'd make immediately.
 
#9 ·
Thanks much for the thought, it would be a shame to scrap the car, it does have some surface rust from the white paint peeling off. I started looking at engine pricing last night to get get figures in my head the few FFv I have found they run about 700$ to 1200$ with shipping, let alone getting the old one out and the new one in. at least this is a case of oil getting into the antifreeze versus antifreeze getting into the oil, but I am very leery of driving it. It was billowing white smoke from around the overflow jug ( while driving) and there were some clouds of white smoke coming from behind the car ( warm engine sitting in a drive through) and this now explains the gurgling I was getting and why the rust is clumping on the radiator cap.
 
#10 ·
I am thinking about doing one of those pour in gasket sealer to get the car by, ( I really do not want to…:-( ) until I get another engine, I have done some reading on it through the forums here, but would like to hear from anyone who has done it and how are they doing now or how long they got by before it failed???

Happy 2016!!!
 
#16 · (Edited)
+1

You say coolant shot out when they did a pressure test. WHERE did the coolant shoot out from? I have never seen any car the puked coolant on the ground only due to a filed head gasket.
^+1

These are two very good points to consider. I understand you have limited time and resouces to devote to 1 car but you may not have a complete and accurate diagnosis.

Spewing coolant wouldn't be the primary symptom of a failed head gasket.
Performing the recalls was great, maybe there is no statute of limitations on recalls :eek:

A new car dealership has less motivation to fix an older car and bring all the maintenance issues to normal without repeat visits and high cost to the owner.

I would find out where the coolant is coming from, it's leaking from somewhere regardless of head gasket or no head gasket issue.

I would also change the coolant and oil and filter. All you have now is old, old coolant and old, old oil neither of which is a good indicator of the current state of the engine.

Pull a hose off, stick a garden hose in there flush it till it's clear and add some water and antifreeze. Change the oil and filter, right now you have old oil with a couple of fresh qts.

Run the engine - if the coolant turns brown with oil or the oil turns white you may be back where you started from but at least it will be more accurate with a very uncomplicated diagnosis.
 
#13 ·
+1

You say coolant shot out when they did a pressure test. WHERE did the coolant shoot out from? I have never seen any car the puked coolant on the ground only due to a filed head gasket.
 
#14 ·
Yes they did take care of the outstanding recalls, it was about 762$ in parts and labor at no charge to me ( Fuel pump and sending unit/ coil spring protectors/ and brake light harness/ switch), the mechanic did a pressure test ( at no charge)and the pressure spiked after a few moments of running, It seems to be a case of oil getting into the water versus water getting into the oil, it was shooting out through the cap, there are rust stains inside engine compartment from the last time it spewed out and with exhaust gases getting into the antifreeze/ cooling system, it would explain the large amount of rust clumps and gurgling I would hear after a long trip, I have washed out the radiator cap several times) Them performing the recalls may be a dealership only thing, I had profusely apologized for bringing it in to do the work had I known the engine was bad. The service advisor stated that they were required to do it regardless of the engine situation. I thought about it and even if it was a stuck thermostat it shouldn't have gotten that much pressure that fast. They had the car from Dec.29 to Dec.31, same mechanic did all the work and I spoke with him upon receiving the car.

I wouldn't even think about dropping the 96 Contour on them with the outstanding ones it has.

Again the car had been badly neglected prior to my getting it and that may have been the reason why, the second owner had passed away and this was in his estate, then it was given to me.
The day before i took it in I had replaced the serpentine belt and the PCV valve and wrapped electric tape around the base of it to give a snug fit. Had replaced the cabin and air filter immediately upon getting the car and initially I made the appointment to have the oil change and a coolant flush done and check about the recalls.( NO car I have EVER owned had antifreeze that looked that bad.) I cannot complain about the dealership at all. Being the car is a FFV engine, certain things are special and specific to that car. But now its to decide what to do with the car, I now have 3 cars that are in bad shape.. 1989 Plymouth: rain leaks in the car, bad wheel hubs, engine runs strong ,really good gas milage. 1996 Contour: a electrical disaster, strong engine and now the taurus with a blown head gasket :-(

My 1983 Chevrolet s-10 puked coolant on a regular basis and that was water getting into the oil. ( extremely low milage at the time I got it,) after two years of driving that it was leaking 2 quarts of oil a day, always running hot.. etc.. etc…etc… etc…etc…etc… ( my father had rebuilt the engine twice) ( it was THAT bad!)
A second test may be called for, I will have to see what I can come up with, I go back to work on Monday and will be working some very long days, so it might be a while before i can get a second test done.
Hopefully this response will give others reading my thoughts and worries as I try to decide what to do short and long term.
Again, Thank you to everyone for the input the WEALTH of information, and the thoughtful insight to my dilemma.
 
#15 ·
I would like to see a compression test and also a combustion gas test of the coolant. Not sure of a pressure test when the engine is running. Usually they do that with the engine off to test for leaks. Normally the coolant system builds pressure as the temperature rises. I have had a sticking thermostat cause the coolant to blow all over the place. I have also had a bad cap and cracked reservoir do the same.

I am thinking the dealer is trustworthy but not sure they did everything to determine it is a bad gasket.
 
#18 · (Edited)
That is something to think about.I will have to read up on the coolant flush discussions, I have not driven the car any distance since getting back from MD last saturday, So its not really ran, I have noticed the warmer the engine gets the less pick up it has when you hit the gas pedal.

Let me ask this, Should I go ahead and pull out spark plugs to see if anything is on them? What else should I consider or take a closer look at?
Again many thanks for the thoughts and suggestions, its giving me a bit of hope.. :)
Oh yes, Oil was changed at the dealership. new oil and filter.
 
#19 ·
You can borrow a compression tester at AutoZone and do a compression test yourself if you can replace a sparkplug. If you have a low cylinder or two adjacent cylinders then you are a step closer to saying it is a bad gasket. If it is a front bank head gasket then the repair could be cheaper than replacing the engine.
 
#20 ·
I did not know that, that may be something to do when I have time off again, Thank you for sharing the with me. I would post some photos but do not have a photo program on this machine, let me see what I can come up with.

I looked when I filled the car with gas tonight, oil still looks good, a little brown, not quite to the full mark, no milky substance on the stick, did not see any before the oil change either. It looks like it was spewing from the cap as there is rust staining all around the overflow and going down on the fender side of the drive belts. and in the cap ring / seat. ( I have not driven it enough yet for it to happen again and continuously run the heater)

Thank you so very much again!!!!!!
 
#21 ·
Tanker71, apologies if you specified this earlier in the thread, but has anyone replaced the coolant cap yet? I know Autiomender12345 mentioned this a few posts ago. If the dealership did a basic cooling system pressure test and the cap (or tank) is bad, I'm not surprised it spewed coolant everywhere as they described. Nor am I surprised that there are rusty stains down the coolant tank. Might be worth a few bucks to try.
 
#30 ·
I haven't seen anything as to having the water pump simply changed out for good measure.
 

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#23 ·
Well the coolant cap I could probably order here in the near future, I have seen a few on ebay, would anyone know what is the correct one as I know Ford revises things quite often?

Now I wonder how I can verify the water pump acting like it should?
Thanks so much again for your thoughts and input!!
 
#24 · (Edited)
Well the coolant cap I could probably order here in the near future, I have seen a few on ebay, would anyone know what is the correct one as I know Ford revises things quite often?

Now I wonder how I can verify the water pump acting like it should?
Thanks so much again for your thoughts and input!!
Available at RA about half the cost from the dealer. Ford seems sure the new design will fix the issues. New desigh screws on with much more torque to get it to click. I would not trust any after market part with this low cost part.
-chart-

In my case the Lin that dumped the coolant passed the cap test ~#15 holding just fine. Issue is not that. There is a low spring valve that lets air in so the hoses do not collapse. That valve has to reseal after a cool night. That valve fails with slow rise in pressure as in engine warmup. Put a pressure test on it and it pops shut and tests fine. Mine tested good, held fine on the hand pump tester. I put it back on the Lin, drove it around the block and there was coolant on top of the tank and no pressure inside. For the cost, not worth the time to test anyway. They age,the rubber ages and the sealing is not good.
 
#25 ·
I will go ahead and start looking that up when I get a chance, so far no more gurgling or spewing antifreeze, not putting out much heat when I run it. been parking it up hill at night to force any air pockets toward the radiator/ overflow cap to vent, and so far the overflow is staying full. I am going to have to do that compression test and replace the spark plugs anyways, I have no idea how old they are.
Thanks so much for the info..!!!
 
#27 ·
I too am skeptical that it is actually a head gasket. It's worth a try - check to see if the leaking is coming from the back timing cover which is a common leak. It usually is leaking just below the head gasket on the top back. Rusty coolant and plugged cores are common on these engines.


I would do a compression test which is cheap to see if the engine is ok to be even worth replacing the radiator cap and go from there.
 
#28 ·
The more I am reading everyone's responses, I am getting a bit skeptical about the head gasket myself. I poured some Gumout file injector cleaner when I filed up with gas on Sunday, that has given the car some power, it feels a bit more like a V-6 versus a overloaded 4 cyl. Maybe that rust was what caused the pressure spike? I have been working 10+ hour days so not much attention has been given to the car. overflow is staying up to the thick line on the side and no overheat so far.

Thanks much for the input and thoughts!!! Maybe this bull is stronger than I thought!!
 
#32 ·
Wow, thanks for the water pump visual. that may be a future project. I filled up the car and checked the oil, oil still looks clean and near the full mark, no puddling or gurgling sounds and radiator cap is staying clean, still that periodic misfire. Heat is still no good :-(

I was searching radiator cpas and for some odd reason came up with two different part numbers, or some would say it will fit a FFV engine and some would not. Any thoughts on this?

I was looking up spark plugs as well and did not find the original spark plug number, I had the same problem with the PCV valve, I am guessing it was discontinued or heavily revised?


Have someone working on the roof right now so I have been a bit distracted from the car. Again Thanks for the thoughts and input.!!!
 
#33 ·
Use ONLY the revised Motorcraft cap, NOT any aftermarket one. Even relatively inexpensive at the Ford dealer, even cheaper at Rockauto. The revised cap fits virtually every Ford made in the last 15 years.
 
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