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Old 01-21-2013, 02:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 4F50N Transmission Problem (Extreme Detail)

Ok, so get ready for this one. I am new here (hi everybody). Ok, so here is the story. I bought this 2000 Taurus SE off of a friend for $300, 110k, engine working, but the transmission had been acting weird. You put it in overdrive, and it goes to about 25 or so and then starts bouncing off the powerband. Like as in, you could clearly tell that nothing was engaging. Now when I was test driving the car, if I was to just simply press the gas harder, the car would then move faster. I got the car up to 65 once when testing it (I know, bad idea), so I don't know if there are any internal problems. The only way I got it to go that fast was if I was in low gear by the way. Weird, huh? Alright, so then I came home and completely started taking stuff apart. I had to find a way to pull the valve body cover without dropping anything that I didn't need to. Needless to say I found a way. I unbolted the tranny mount and took it off the car along with the big piece of metal that connects it from the tranny to the body. So I pulled the pan off, and then the next day I took off the valve body. I took some pictures of the pump shaft, and nothing on it looks sheared. I then looked into the hole towards the TC and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I then started cranking over the engine with a ratchet to see if the shaft was turning, and it was, so yeah. Now here I am on this forum for the first time, asking what might be wrong. I tried to do research before, so I could get straightforward support. What could possibly be wrong here. Something in the valve body? A sensor? I'm really new to this new transmission technology. I will attach photos here too. I have NOT checked the solenoids YET, that's tomorrow. I turned the pump with the shaft in by hand and it turned fine. I did NOT however, check the pump when It was all together. Oh yeah, The fluid smelt burnt a little bit, not a horrible smell, just a bit of burnt smell.

Car details
2000 Ford Taurus SE
3.0 Vulcan, 4F50N
110k Miles




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Old 01-21-2013, 03:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default 4F50N Transmission Problem (Extreme Detail)

Well before pulling it out I would have done a fluid and filter change.

Check the shift solenoids. Can you leave it in D and get it to 65 just fine? It's only when in OD? Metal shavings in the fluid?


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Old 01-21-2013, 05:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would disagree with the "extreme detail" description. Perhaps it contains extreme ignorance instead.

No mention of gears here (there are four) so was the transmission even shifting or were you stuck in 2nd gear?

Generally you do the electrical checks and the line pressure checks before you rip the valve body out of the transmission. Are you sure you weren't just low on fluid?
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well the person that I got it from said they changed it, but the bolts on the pan looked like they hadn't been touched. As for the gears, If I leave it in overdrive it will only go up to 25 no matter what I do. if I shifted into low gear it will go up to 65, after playingwith the throttle a bit, like you have to press it pretty hard to get it to hook up. And I very slightly felt the transmission shift down when I was de-accelerating. It's a whole new work, this automatic transmission. For me at least. I'm at work now but I'll check all the solenoids and the TCC solenoid when I get home.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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When I say "shift" I mean what is the transmission actually doing, not where you have the gear selector (you said it shifted once on decel). You should be able to roughly figure out what gear it's in by comparing the engine speed to the vehicle speed.

When you hit your max speeds of 25 MPH and 65 MPH, what was the tachometer reading (like what number was it pointing to)?

Was the check engine light on at all or were there any codes?

If the transmission was slipping in third gear to 65 MPH at WOT it's very possible you completely burnt the fluid that was just changed in addition to severely wearing what was left of the clutch disks.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by behlinla View Post
When I say "shift" I mean what is the transmission actually doing, not where you have the gear selector (you said it shifted once on decel). You should be able to roughly figure out what gear it's in by comparing the engine speed to the vehicle speed.

When you hit your max speeds of 25 MPH and 65 MPH, what was the tachometer reading (like what number was it pointing to)?

Was the check engine light on at all or were there any codes?

If the transmission was slipping in third gear to 65 MPH at WOT it's very possible you completely burnt the fluid that was just changed in addition to severely wearing what was left of the clutch disks.
First off I wasn't even responding to your question. You would have to put it into low gear when you hit that 25 miles an hour and then mash on the gas and then it would slowly make it to 65. You would never feel the car actually shift at all but that would make any sense if you're going 65 miles an hour in first gear. Something would've had to shift. Now 65 isn't the top speed, I just didn't want to run the piss out of the transmission if there was an internal problem. And please don't call me ignorant I'm not really ignorant I just don't know anything about automatic transmissions. I forgot the obdii codes, but One of them was for an EGR restriction and the other one was for an O2 sensor. As for the shifting down I was driving at 65 miles an hour in low gear let off the gas and at about 25 miles an hour the car had a slight thunk back into some gear I don't know what one. So I don't know If it's my pump not working efficiently enough to make the torque converter work I have no idea. I would have to Have the RPMs be like over 4000 in order for my Car to go any faster.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonstopXtrmn8r View Post
You would have to put it into low gear when you hit that 25 miles an hour and then mash on the gas and then it would slowly make it to 65. You would never feel the car actually shift at all but that would make any sense if you're going 65 miles an hour in first gear. Something would've had to shift.
If you're going 65 MPH you have to at least be in second gear. I suggest you watch this video so you can get an idea where the shift points are under high load:


Quote:
Originally Posted by NonstopXtrmn8r View Post
And please don't call me ignorant I'm not really ignorant I just don't know anything about automatic transmissions.
Sorry, but I thought the word fit.

ig·no·rant (adj) - Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NonstopXtrmn8r View Post
I forgot the obdii codes, but One of them was for an EGR restriction and the other one was for an O2 sensor.
EGR and O2 sensor codes might possibly be indicative of an exhaust restriction, which could cause the lack of power you've been experiencing. The restriction can affect the shift points since the engine would be under a much greater load than it would be expecting. Having the actual codes would be helpful.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by behlinla View Post
If you're going 65 MPH you have to at least be in second gear. I suggest you watch this video so you can get an idea where the shift points are under high load:

Ford Taurus 0-60 - YouTube



Sorry, but I thought the word fit.

ig·no·rant (adj) - Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.



EGR and O2 sensor codes might possibly be indicative of an exhaust restriction, which could cause the lack of power you've been experiencing. The restriction can affect the shift points since the engine would be under a much greater load than it would be expecting. Having the actual codes would be helpful.
Now one gem piece of information that I might have forgot is when I was hitting the gas and trying to accelerate my car, the car would start to shake a bit, not in the act of power loss but in the act of it felt like my suspension was starting to shake. The codes were a p04xx and p017x, or something similar. Sorry, I can't exactly pull the codes again. But, I can check my history on my computer for what codes I searched for when I get home in a few hours.
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Last edited by Sam; 01-21-2013 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default 4F50N Transmission Problem (Extreme Detail)

Okay gentlemen lets not call people names. FYI most people say this forum is very welcoming. Also, behlinla is one of the best resources on this forum.

Behlinla - lay off.

Nonstop - dont get mad, ignore it if you don't like it. I edited your post. Behlinla did see it.

Anyways, I think we still don't understand what's going on here.


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