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Old 01-15-2013, 04:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 99 taurus no crank/no start, read sticky

Ive been working on my friends grandmas 99 taurus with 3.0 OHV, its having an intermittent starting issue, heres a quick summary

turn key to on position, fuel pump primes just fine.

as soon as you turn the key to the on position, the service engine soon light comes on (after a verrrrry short flash off) and remains on. very similar to the check engine light in a obd1 honda, the light comes on while pump is priming, then it turns off with a click and remains off (in a honda if the check engine light remains on that means the main relay isn't giving power to the ecu- common problem).

The theft light is not on.

while cranking the motor the service engine light stays on, you can crank the engine from anywhere from 5-30 seconds, but as soon as the service engine soon light turns off, the car fires right up.

The tach doesnt bounce while cranking. The crank position sensor is new.

Ive gotten so far into it to check the timing chain to see if it jumped time, timing chain is fine, timing marks all line up, i then re-set the camshaft sensor using the proper alignment tool.

The CMP sensor (top of cam sensor) is also new.

When i took on the job it was supposedly a "bad ecu" case

Does this sound familiar to anyone? as far as the service engine soon light turning off while cranking, then it the car fires up?

Any help would be appreciated, fuel pump is fine.

The car throws DTC in the scan tool, but the indicator on the dash doesn't illuminate.

p0352 coil b primary/secondary
p0351 coil a primary/secondary
p0353 coil c primary/secondary

The coil pack(s) are new, along with CMP position sensor and crank sensor.

*edit*
the car does run and drive when it does start, and will run for up to 45 min. it does not mis-fire but does run a bit rough and lacks power, its hard to say how much because i never drove the car in good running condition.

Last edited by Laskowski; 01-16-2013 at 03:54 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Okay those codes make me think the coil isn't getting power. Seems the PCM (ECU) is probably fine.

Check to make sure the coil is plugged in! Check grounds too.

Generally when I have seen these 3 codes together the coil pack is unplugged. Make sure to push on the connector so its making complete contact and is clipped in.

I've heard of people having this issue and the connector sometimes makes contact, other times it does not. So sometimes the car runs.

If the coil is properly plugged in and the power and ground to it looks fine it is probably a PCM problem.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes, double check and make sure the coil wiring is undamaged and plugged in securely. You might also want to check the fuse #10 under the dash (20A). That fuse also powers the PCM power relay, so it sounds like the car isn't starting because the PCM isn't getting power. Pull it, check it, and reseat it. Make sure the fuse rating is correct (20A). Could also be the PCM power relay (#30).

I'm guessing the car starts once the PCM relay gets enough power to close. When the PCM gets power the CEL goes out and the engine starts.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Coilpacks fully plugged in, when it starts, you can wiggle the wires going into the coilpack and has no affect, im sure its a solid connection there.

Checked grounds, they are good.

checked the fuse in the cabin (#10) its good

I jumped the ECU relay in the engine bay (next to fuel pump relay) and the car would start regularly, turned off, started, etc. did that probably 10 times.

sent my friend to the store about .7 mile away, left it running at the store, came back and then when it was turned off it would not start after that, even with the ecu relay jumped (what we thought for sure was the problem).

what i think i really need is an ECU pinout diagram, that being said i can start testing wires.

with the ECU relay jumped, it did not make the verrry short flash off when the key was turned on, for what i think is obvious reasons but just more info.

I am really leaning towards the ecu (i am a mechanic, usually work on mazda rotary and honda), like previously diagnosed, if i got a replacement ecu, witch i can find for relatively cheap (unless someone on here has a killer deal on one) would i have to get it re-programed for my key? ive read that somewhere on here.

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Old 01-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Which fuse did you jump (#10 under the dash or #2 under the hood)? You should do a current measurement on whatever fuse.

Here's the wiring diagram. PCM pins are labeled.

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/D...2-5628d69492b0
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The one i jumped was relay #5 according to my fuse cover, when i look in the owners manual at the layout for the power distribution box its location 30 (PCM relay not the fuse #2)

I've got an ecu side pinout, and just to be correct when looking at the ecu from the front of the car in the engine bay, #1 is in top left and #104 is in bottom right? (like reading a book)

The diagram is very helpful, thanks for your help so far
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laskowski View Post
with the ECU fuse jumped, it did not make the verrry short flash off when the key was turned on, for what i think is obvious reasons but just more info.
I'm guessing you meant to say relay.

Yes, I believe PCM pin 1 is in the upper left corner, but you should confirm the wire color with the diagram to be 100% sure.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ah! my bad. yes i meant to say relay, sorry.

i'll start poking some wires.

as far as if the ecu is changed out, will it need to be re-programed for this key? i read somewhere on this site that these have an anti theft type of safety, i cant remember what year they were talking about.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laskowski View Post
as far as if the ecu is changed out, will it need to be re-programed for this key? i read somewhere on this site that these have an anti theft type of safety, i cant remember what year they were talking about.
Yes, if you have PATS, you will have to have the PCM reprogramed to work with the PATS module. You can tell if you have PATS by looking at the key. If it has an offset hole you have PATS.



I would change that relay if you haven't already. Obviously check out all the wiring and components before replacing the PCM. It might also be an ignition switch problem.

Check the coil primaries if you haven't already.

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