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Old 04-24-2011, 08:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 3.0 24 valve Bucking or missing

Hello all, new to group. I need some help with my son's car, a 2002 Sable.
He complained of bucking or knocking. I listened to it and observed the following'

At idle it is very smooth, race it up and it starts to miss or buck, race it up under load (in drive an brake on) same result.

No CEL on, scanned it and no codes stored. Watched EGR valve for any movement while revving engine and saw nothing, but bad EGR system should set a code shouldn't it ? Any ideas?

Thanks, Scott
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You may have codes pending that haven't set yet. Can you get to a parts store that does free scans (check for pending) and let us know? EGR won't necessarily operate while revving throttle, at least not visibly. Last tune up? A 2002 could be due for it's first.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for reply, car has 85k on it and i don't know much about maintenance history. I am a former diesel mech. so not all up to speed on these newer spark engines.

My gut feeling is this is not a bad wire or plug because it runs smooth at idle and up to 25k, then the problem occurs. I did pull each of the 3 front wires while it was running, both at at idle and while it was bucking and each cylinder did drop RPM.

I used my Scan Gauge to check for codes, it said all test were ready. Not sure what OB 2 systems are checked on Fords, but whatever is malfunctioning is not showing.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotzo View Post
Thanks for reply, car has 85k on it and i don't know much about maintenance history. I am a former diesel mech. so not all up to speed on these newer spark engines.

My gut feeling is this is not a bad wire or plug because it runs smooth at idle and up to 25k, then the problem occurs. I did pull each of the 3 front wires while it was running, both at at idle and while it was bucking and each cylinder did drop RPM.

I used my Scan Gauge to check for codes, it said all test were ready. Not sure what OB 2 systems are checked on Fords, but whatever is malfunctioning is not showing.
I would change plugs (due for it) and check COP (coil on plug) for cracks on it.

I just found two cop with cracks on my 04 tec with 77k miles. #1 on firewall, #4 on radiator side. No codes were
triggered also.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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^ No cop on 02 tec. He has plug wires and coil pack. I would suspect the coil pack. You can run primary and secondary resistance tests if you have an ohmmeter and haynes or chiltons manual for the specs and how-to, or remove the coil and run it to autozone and let them do it for free. Its a great test if coil tests out of spec, but if it tests in spec, theres no guarantee it wont fail under load which sounds like yours is doing. About the only way to test a cop coil is to visually inspect for cracks and damage and check for spark with a spark tester. Look over the boot carefully.

Last edited by sheila; 04-28-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have an '04 tec and have been chasing the same problem for about 2mos. I've changed fuel filter, pcv, plugs, ran injector cleaner (twice), pulled fuel rail and inspected each injector, checked all vacuum lines, ... I have same symptoms as "scotzo"(no codes). I checked prim. res. on cop's but didn't think to look for cracks. That would do it.
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Not sure if this will help or not: My 03 3.0L behaves similarly. It will idle fine and drive smoothly for the most part; but when I hit the gas hard (like merging) it starts to buck/miss like crazy at about 3300-3500 rpm.... (even in Park in the driveway) I did some looking online a while back, can't remember where, but Ford has issued a TSB (Technical Service Bulliten) regarding that very issue. You may look for that... If I find it first, I will post a link here. I still need to get mine taken care of.....
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Here is what I found:

TSB 05-22-12

11/14/05
BUCK/JERK AND MISS DURING DRIVE CYCLE
ABOVE 3000 RPM - NO DTC - 3.0L 2V GAS AND FFV
ENGINE

FORD:
2000-2003 Taurus, Ranger

MERCURY:
2000-2003 Sable

ISSUE

Some 2000-2003 Taurus, Sable, Ranger vehicles equipped with a 3.0L 2-valve gas or FFV engine may exhibit a buck/jerk/miss during drive cycles above 3000 RPM with no diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's). A possible cause is the camshaft synchronizer assembly. Since the camshaft position (CMP) fault monitor is not active above 2500 RPM, no diagnostic trouble code (P0340) is set during the drive concern, thus making it difficult to diagnose the root cause component.
ACTION
Use an NGS to identify whether or not the synchronizer is the causal component.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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All fine and dandy, but scotzo and mike819 have tecs.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheila View Post
^ No cop on 02 tec. He has plug wires and coil pack. I would suspect the coil pack. You can run primary and secondary resistance tests if you have an ohmmeter and haynes or chiltons manual for the specs and how-to, or remove the coil and run it to autozone and let them do it for free. Its a great test if coil tests out of spec, but if it tests in spec, theres no guarantee it wont fail under load which sounds like yours is doing.
Thanks, Sheila for the correction.

What are the years for cop on tec and vulcan?

I was under the impression everything after 2000 was cop .

Thank You
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