Strong crank - no start. Intermittent. - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
Register Home Forums Active Topics Topic Finder Photos Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto Loans
TaurusClub.com is the premier Ford Taurus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-29-2010, 07:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 18672
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter: Northeast
Drives: 2001 Sable LS Premium (Duratec)
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 6
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
SableDude has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default Strong crank - no start. Intermittent.

I could use some advice. My Sable normally runs great -- a 2001 Duratec with 85,000 miles.

Without any prior warning, the car wouldn't start after sitting about 10 hours at work. It was about 28F, late on a Friday, the first freezing day of the year. Strong crank, but no fire, not even a stumbling fire. I called the wife to rescue me and I kept cranking every few minutes. When she arrived, out of desperation, I tried a jump and it started, and ran fine. Weird, I thought, but I ran out and exchanged the 1-year old battery. Two days later, dead again (good crank; no fire). After half an hour of attempts, it suddenly started, no jump. I Googled a lot, including here, and decided it must be the fuel pump relay. Replaced that. Today again, crank + no start. 4th crank, it started and ran fine. No check-engine light ever. So far, it's only done this on cold starts.

I'm thinking that it must be a failure in fuel pump or spark delivery, but how do I know which? I'm reluctant to take it to a mechanic when this isn't occurring, because I think they won't know what to do. I'll end up paying for a new fuel pump and later learn it was ignition coils or some such.

I saw a few posts here reporting similar problems, but the OP didn't report the ultimate resolution. I promise to report back whatever I learn, but meanwhile would appreciate any troubleshooting advice. Will a code reader help at all when the CEL isn't lit?

Thanks in advance.
SableDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-29-2010, 09:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
WJC
Devoted Member
 
WJC's Avatar
 
Member Number: 16719
Join Date: Sep 2008
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1,268
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 17
WJC has a spectacular aura about
Default

You can turn the key to "on" and listen for the fuel pump prime, a low humming noise for about 2 seconds. If no noise, either the pump or pump circuitry has failed. The pump can still run and you have a fuel pressure problem though. To go any further, you'll need an EFI gauge and an HEI spark checker of some sort.
__________________
"Spare the duct tape, spoil the job."
WJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 09:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 18672
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter: Northeast
Drives: 2001 Sable LS Premium (Duratec)
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 6
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
SableDude has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like I'll have to wait for the next no-start day. Can you think of anything to check while I wait for it to happen again?
SableDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 05:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 33233
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter: Northeast
Drives: 2000 SE 3.0
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
etown is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I am having a very similar problem on my 2000 Taurus SE. It won't start right now, but it sounds like my fuel pump is priming.

The first well-below freezing day of the year it wouldn't start in the morning. Cranked it for 45 seconds without even a sputter of ignition. I poured in a can of heet and got a ride to work. Got home, no start for 30 secs cranking. Tried again 45 mins later, same. Tried again 45 minutes later, it started! So my first thought was that I really did have a frozen fuel line and the heet took a while to melt it. Nope. 4 days later I drove to lunch, parked for 30 minutes while I ate, it wouldn't start when I came out. I called for a ride. But I tried starting it again 1 minute after the first try and it fired up immediately. Since then, it's happened 3 more times. But today is the first time after 4 hours of attempts that it still won't fire up.

But wait, there's more. I also do not think it's coincidence that my AC, wipers, and ignition all did something similar to this over the years. Is there some component in common that I need replaced?

In 2005 it would stall when it was very hot out. At first it would start right back up. I'd say it did this about 1 every 10 hours of driving in temps over 90f. Then it got more common, and sometimes it wouldn't turn over after stalling. At first 5-10 attempts in a row it and it would turn over. (Remember, back then when I got it to turn over, it would always start. Today is a new problem where it turns over but apparently has no fuel.) It progressively got more frequent, stalling more frequently and on less hot days, and the number of tries turning the key off and on before it would turn over went up to hundreds. I kept taking it to the dealer and paying a 200 diag fee or $400 PCM upgrade and they'd always report no problem found. I did that about 4 times and finally got a second car for summer driving and only drive the taurus in the winter now.

Then the wipers did something similar in 2006-7, but not apparently temp correlated, where low or hi would drop out. At first when low would go out I'd just switch to high which would work, and when high didn't work I'd switch to low. It got worse and worse and neither would work except once in a blue moon. I finally installed a bypass line from ground to a switch in the dash, to the wiper motor. I just flip it on high from there and have gotten really good at flipping them off when they're at the bottom of the stroke.

AC, same story in 2009-10. But I only drive it a little in the summer because of the problem that started in 2005. The AC stopped working 3 times out of about 10 in 2009, and once in 2010 it worked. I'm pretty sure it won't come back on again. (compressor comes on, but warm air.)

None of these problems have ever thrown an engine code. They all start off intermittent and get progressively worse. There's got to be something in common. I'm a medical tech, so I'm good at tracking symptoms and facts about a problem, but I'm lost with modern car electrical problems other than basics like wiring up the wiper motor. It feels like the kind of problem I see at work when there's a coworker who can't put 2x2 together. It seems like a good logical auto tech could easily go "ah ha!" on this. (Assuming all the problems are related, which seems likely.)

I'm going to go try starting it again.
etown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 04:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 18672
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter: Northeast
Drives: 2001 Sable LS Premium (Duratec)
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 6
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
SableDude has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

My car is running fine, but I haven't fixed anything. Here are my current theories gathered from a ton of web searches.
  1. Fuel Pump
  2. Fuel pressure anti-bleed-back valve
  3. Water or other crap in gas (like a marble)
  4. PCM relay
  5. Idle Air Control
  6. Crank position sensor
I had the codes read today -- no codes present. Added some Heet to the tank. Ran it to 6000 RPM in 2nd gear a couple times (fun!) to rule out weak fuel pump. Seems as strong as ever.

etown -- you've clearly got electric gremlins. That's the sort of history that makes me sell a car. I'm already thinking about that but (till now) always really liked my Sable.
SableDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 04:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 33135
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter: Midwest
Drives: 2000 Taurus SES 2000 Sable LS
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 6
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
ArrowFlinger is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I have the same issue with my F150.
Seems to happen more often on cold days or drastic temp drops.

Last time it happened I checked fuel pump fuses and reseated all fuses. Thought it might be the anti-theft, but the light went out when I put the key in the on position and i could hear the fuel pump prime.

For kicks, i got out locked and unlocked the door with the FOB and then did it with the key(as I had heard that can reset the anti-theft). Started up fine.

Now I tell the wife and kid when they start it to listen for the fuel pump, to help diagnose it.

I agree that this is something you hate to take to a shop because they will make a guess like we are and you could end up change a couple of things unessessarily. Maybe time to unload it in the spring.
ArrowFlinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 01:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Member Number: 19958
Join Date: May 2009
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 160
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 11
Chingon will become famous soon enough
Default

First thing you should try is to just change the fuel filter. Cheap, easy and good to do in any case. At 92k miles my fuel filter looked original, and was clogged as hell. I'm pretty sure that's what killed my fuel pump, which was starting intermittently as well...
Chingon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 01:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 33532
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Chapter: Midwest
Drives: 2001 Taurus 3.0
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
Magredvet is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I am having the same kind of problem with my mother in laws Taurus. It seems that when she does a quick errand and comes back to start it wont. I had the battery tested a couple of weeks ago and that tested borderline so I replaced it under warranty. Started fine since then. Yesterday it was the same thing again, just crank and almost sound like it wanted to start but not start. So she got a ride and went back with her son and put jumper cables on and it starts??? This is the weird part I don't get. Either the car will start right up when I get to it or if jumper cables are put on it it will start. I have listened to the fuel pump run every time today while I have it to check out. I don't want her to take it to a shop as well for fear of parts dumping and cost that are not necessary. Anyone else have some input?

Chris
Magredvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 09:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 18672
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter: Northeast
Drives: 2001 Sable LS Premium (Duratec)
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 6
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
SableDude has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Well, a disappointing update... So far the problem has not recurred for me. Right or wrong, I am not convinced it's the fuel filter or pump, because the car pulls strong right up to 6000 RPM. It's all or nothing -- makes me think electrical. And the fuel filter has only 20k or so on it: not new, but not horrifying. There's never been a rough idle, or weak performance once started.

My plan: wait until problem is reproducible at will; keep AAA card handy. I don't even really have AAA, I'm just daring and cheap.
SableDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 11:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 29572
Join Date: Jun 2010
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 22
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
morphine has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

I had a couple of times. But I have not had any idea. So keeping update and waiting for solution coming up.
morphine is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2