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Old 10-27-2010, 05:54 AM   #31 (permalink)
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This thread is a perfect example of why you should never use coolant additives.

Use a radiator flush. I don't think you should run Liquid plumber through your cooling system. Maybe its just me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toronut View Post
The whole purpose of the bypass is to prevent you from starving the motor from coolant if the heater core plugs up. Bye Bye motor!
This is exactly what the bypass's purpose is.
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Last edited by mediarocker; 10-27-2010 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean archer View Post
So where is all this metal coming from? Isn't it bad that the insides of our cars are basically rusting away?
Very bad problem with this car. The engine block was poorly cast. Rust accumulates and causes overheating problems. The radiator can become very ineffective also.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:32 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Where this metal comes from

> So where is all this metal coming from? Isn't it bad that
> the insides of our cars are basically rusting away?

All steel rusts in the presence of oxygen. It's not that Ford's steel or Ford's motor is inferior. The way the manufacturer prevents rust is with rust inhibitor, which is built into the antifreeze. Although the antifreeze part of the antifreeze is permanent, the rust inhibitor wears out. That's why you replace antifreeze regularly. If you leave it in too long, or buy a used car where the previous owner didn't replace his antifreeze, you'll have rust which with time clogs the heater core. If you continue to leave it, you'll also clog the radiator core. The heater core, since it's little, is easier to clog, so take it as a warning if your heater core clogged that it's time to not only reverse flush the heater but also to flush the entire system.
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Old 11-20-2010, 02:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csigona View Post
> So where is all this metal coming from? Isn't it bad that
> the insides of our cars are basically rusting away?

All steel rusts in the presence of oxygen. It's not that Ford's steel or Ford's motor is inferior. The way the manufacturer prevents rust is with rust inhibitor, which is built into the antifreeze. Although the antifreeze part of the antifreeze is permanent, the rust inhibitor wears out. That's why you replace antifreeze regularly. If you leave it in too long, or buy a used car where the previous owner didn't replace his antifreeze, you'll have rust which with time clogs the heater core. If you continue to leave it, you'll also clog the radiator core. The heater core, since it's little, is easier to clog, so take it as a warning if your heater core clogged that it's time to not only reverse flush the heater but also to flush the entire system.
The whole point of my comment was this issues did not seem to affect the
earlier vulcans. somewhere around Gen 3, this problem started happening.
So if they did not rust internally like this before, why Gen3 and after?
what changed to make this happen?
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Old 11-20-2010, 05:49 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrantkey View Post
Very bad problem with this car. The engine block was poorly cast. Rust accumulates and causes overheating problems. The radiator can become very ineffective also.
I disagree. The block casting isn't the issue at all in my eyes. If it was, then why does the steel impeller on the water pump rot? Is the steel content to blame? What about the steel pipes in the rear that rot from the inside out? It's being caused by some sort of reaction from dissimilar metals or electrolysis/grounding issues or something like that. I don't know for sure. Poor casting seems unlikely to me.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:20 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW657 View Post
I disagree. The block casting isn't the issue at all in my eyes. If it was, then why does the steel impeller on the water pump rot? Is the steel content to blame? What about the steel pipes in the rear that rot from the inside out? It's being caused by some sort of reaction from dissimilar metals or electrolysis/grounding issues or something like that. I don't know for sure. Poor casting seems unlikely to me.
the water pump rot issues did not seem to be happening until gen3 or after. All the water pumps i replaced on gen1 and gen2 had good impellers.
They were scrapping the housing due to eccentric bearing wear or leaking seals.

Now, if electrolysis was happening, something was not grounded right
or some change in metallurgy happened in some system
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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They changed the cooling system routing for the new 96 body style which caused hot and cold spots in the system, breaking down the antifreeze prematurely. Toyota made a similar mistake with their oil passage routing on a 2000-era V6 in the Sienna minivans.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:31 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrantkey View Post
Very bad problem with this car. The engine block was poorly cast. Rust accumulates and causes overheating problems. The radiator can become very ineffective also.
Not true. The impeller of the water pump tends to rot away and cause the overheating problems due to poor flow, this is usually the first thing to occur if the heater core doesn't get clogged. The heater core tends to clog with scale and rust, but the core has a bypass hose which prevents most overheating.

The block casting has nothing to do with the "rust accumulation" issues that you mention. If the block was "poorly cast" there would be issues with durability, which is not the case. If my memory serves me correctly, based on working on G2 Vulcans and G3 Vulcans, Vulcan design has hardly been changed between the 2 generations, besides locations for coils and the change from distribution to coil pack ignition. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition to this, the radiator becomes inefficient as years progress. (be it through the cooling fins becoming clogged or the passage ways becoming blocked) However this is not the fault of the vehicle as this is regular wear and tear, and preventative maintenance can help prevent this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJC View Post
They changed the cooling system routing for the new 96 body style which caused hot and cold spots in the system, breaking down the antifreeze prematurely. Toyota made a similar mistake with their oil passage routing on a 2000-era V6 in the Sienna minivans.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Another contributing factor is due to the use of tap water in the cooling system. This tends to cause scale build up which blocks coolant passageways and clog up the heater core.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:26 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Long story - the bypass, and the heater core.

Hi, I'm a new member (Canada - Eastern Ontario)

Own a 2000 Taurus SE sedan - 3.0 L V6 Vulcan Engine. Over 200,000 km now.

I read with much interest all the the heater core / cooling system issues that everyone is writing about.

I too have had some of these issues. Long story - but I'll try and fit it in.

1. 5 years or more ago started to develop a slow drip coolant leak from the front engine cover. Too small a leak to worry about for about the next year and a half / two years - but the leak got worse. Plus, it was leaking down on a hot exhaust part (cat convertor?) and then vapourizing / steaming up into the engine compartment - and then could smell in car - being taken into the vent system. Worse at a stop light. Not good. Not healthy. Gross smell. Had to fix at that point. Plus loosing too much coolant. Bad for the environment. Expensive.

2. Maybe 4 years ago, tried a stop leak product in the coolant. Helped slow the leak for awhile, maybe a year, but had other serious consequences. ( ex. Ended up plugging up the heater core - and then no heat in winter - added expense and trouble to have system flushed. )

[ SO I DO NOT RECOMMEND EVER USING A STOP LEAK PRODUCT IN YOUR COOLING SYSTEM - There are too many consequences and trouble later on. Don't do it. Plan to fix the problem correctly - without using any stop leak product. ]

3. Eventually had to have the Engine, front cover gasket replaced since it was leaking too much coolant. That was expensive and took some time at the shop. I had them replace the water pump and front crank seal (?) at the same time - it just made sense to do that at the same time since all those parts are off and accessible at that time. So new water pump - for sure.

In order to do this work, the oil pan had to come down - so they tell me. So they needed a new oil pan gasket also. That is some kind of special rubber gasket from Ford - so it was expensive. More than a hundred bucks just for the special oil pan gasket.

4. The use of Stop Leak in the coolant back when, eventually plugged up/restricted the heater core. No heat in winter. So a couple years ago, took it to a Cooling system and Rad specialty shop. They Flushed the system and did a special Heater Core Flush separately - and that brought back all the heat. Great.

BUT ... The RAD SHOP also cut the short little heater core BYPASS hose, that runs between the black steel pipes on the firewall, and plugged the two short ends with short 1/2 inch bolts - cut short, inserted as plugs, and hose clamps to seal.

So the RAD SHOP blocked my heater core bypass tube completely on me.

Great - that got more hot coolant to flow through the heater core - but had other consequences later on.

[ SO - I DO *NOT* RECOMMEND YOU PERMANENTLY BLOCK YOUR HEATER CORE BYPASS TUBE / HOSE - RE: MY PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE - PLEASE READ ON ]

5. Summer comes, and when things get HOT, I notice my temperature guage on the dash is fluctuating up and down alot. From mid position to up near the hot mark. Never did that before. Plus the electric rad fans are cycling on and off a LOT more than normal.

I investigate, find the bypass plugs installed by the rad shop, and remove them, and replace them myself with a short piece of 1/2 copper tube.

Things go back to normal and work as before. No guage fluctuation. No rad fans cycling alot.

6. Few months later, I replace, and extend the bypass hoses upwards to the upper firewall area, where they can be easily accessed. The hoses come up in a curved loop fashion and I installed an EVERCO heater control valve in the bypass circuit. Controlled manually from the cabin with a choke pull off cable. Not easy - but I did it.

7. Couple years later - now - lack of heat again in the cabin.
So I go to a garage, explain the issue, and he does a system flush for me - but we decide to not do a separate heater core flush yet. Just do a simple system flush (without heater core flush for now). Installs a new thermostat at the same time. Fine.

No luck. Still only about half the heat I should have in the car. And winter is coming on in Canada. Need full heat to de-ice / defrost the car.

So I did the Heater Core flush myself after at home. And that gave me full heat again.

Read on ...


8. Did Heater Core Flush myself at home.

Since last year, I already had extended the bypass hose connections up to the top of the engine compartment - I now have easy access to them.

Disconnect the EVERCO heater control valve I installed- gain access to the two 5/8 hoses I installed. Put in two garden hose fittings / nipples and clamp.

Using 2 pair of vice grip, slip over the jaws, some short pieces of extra hose to protect, and clamp off / plug by squeezing - the lines from the water pump to the heater core, and the one from the heater core back to the engine / thermostat.

The heater core is now isolated from the rest of the cooling system - so you can flush it independently.

Flush, first in backwards direction, through one heater core bypass lines access point, with garden hose connected to hot water from inside house.

On first flush, out blows rust, sludge, and couple gallons of brown filty coolant (and that is *after* the garage system flush !) No wonder no heat.

So there was definitely a sludged up restriction there.

Flush a few times back and forth. Out comes more brown stuff and rust particles.

Introduce a safe rad cleaner product into heater core only - Kleen Flo rad cleaner and flush, cut with warm water to make maybe half a gallon's worth - with a funnel elevated into one of the hoses - and out the other hose into container. Let sit for awhile - as instructed.

Re-flush back and forth a few times with warm water.

Final flush with cold water - let the cool water run thru the core for a couple minutes till it looks clear enough.

Re-fill heater core with 50/50 water and new coolant - same method - funnel into one of the bypass hoses - displace liquid out the other into bucket - till you see green coolant coming out.

Close everything up, put everything together, remove the vice grips hose squeezers.

[ Be very careful - don't recommend using harsh cleaner products. CLR I tested pure - eats zinc coating off galvanized nails. Not to hard on aluminum or copper - but did oxidize them a little. I think best to try a safe and recommended coolant system cleaner product FIRST. Don't recommend DRANO. There's steel pipes on the firewall. ]

9. Got an anti-rust spray product in a can and sprayed those steel coolant system pipes on the firewall. The ones everyone says rust out and leak. To slow down rusting from the outside.

SO I'M FLUSHING FROM THE BYPASS TUBES POINTS, AND CLAMPING OFF THE HOSES TO AND FROM THE ENGINE TO ISOLATE THE HEATER CORE.

THAT MADE THE JOB FAIRLY EASY FOR ME. LESS TO DISCONNECT AND RECONNECT. BUT STILL A MESSY AND TIME CONSUMING JOB TO DO AT HOME YOURSELF.

FOR MOST PEOPLE - RECOMMEND TAKE IT TO A SHOP - AND MAKE SURE THEY DO A SEPARATE HEATER CORE FLUSH IN ADDITION TO A FULL SYSTEM FLUSH. EVERY TWO YEARS. THAT WILL SAVE YOU LOTS OF TROUBLE AND PROBLEMS IN THE FUTURE.

I RECOMMEND - MAKE SURE THEY DO *NOT* PERMANANENTLY PLUG YOUR HEATER CORE BYPASS PASSAGE. I FEEL QUITE CONFIDENT THAT BYPASS PASSAGE SERVES AN IMPORTANT FUNCTION. I HAVE PROVEN THAT PRACTICALLY FOR MYSELF.

Last edited by mrvanwinkles; 11-14-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:03 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Forgot to mention - be careful pulling and tugging on any of the hoses connected to the heater core or those steel coolant tubes.

Work gently and carefully.

Try not to apply any major force to those steel coolant tubes on the firewall. Mine are in pretty good condition. But they can rust and become weaker than normal.

In fact, the garage in item 7. of my previous post - was a little "SCARED" to do a separate heater core flush for me. So we decided to try without one first.

If the garage breaks those lines, and they start to leak - it's a difficult job to try and fix it.

They know full well those steel - coolant carrying lines on the firewall can rust and get weak. And I think when I showed them and I explained my EVERCO heater control valve and, bypass hose tube modification to the garage ... they sort of did not want to touch it - if they could avoid it.

Thats Fine ... we all want to avoid unnecessary troubles.

Just be careful and gentle if working on and around those hoses and tubes.

Remind the Garage too - if they're doing that sort of work for you.
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