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Old 05-22-2010, 01:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Car: 97 Taurus LX, 74k miles, power windows

My front passenger window has had issues over the last few years. It will just stop working. When I push the button on either the master or passenger switch, the lights dim and the relay clicks over, but there's no movement. The mechanic couldn't find the problem when my grandpa had it, so he just rolled the window up and left it.

A few months ago I took it apart and the motor was fine. as soon as i popped it out, i tested it from the switch in the car and it ran fine. I oiled the joints and pins, then pushed the window up and down by hand. I put it all together and it worked perfectly for about 4 months. A month ago, it stopped working in the down-position and i did the same process and it worked again. It happened a 3rd time yesterday, and again, its working, but all I did was push it up about 3 inches. I can't find the source of the problem.. anyone have the same issue or know of a fix? I haven't checked the wires, but I checked it after each step and it only worked after pulling the motor, moving the window, and reassembling. Not even after slamming the door shut a few times! .. I stopped doing that first after I thought something plastic cracked

Notes
- It's only gotten stuck when down, which was on warm or hot days for the two times the problem came when I had the car. The motor also felt pretty warm when i took the panels off
- as soon as I take the motor off, it runs off the switch.
- "To "fix" it, I do nothing but take the motor off, move the window, and put everything back together.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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QUOTE (73torquer429 @ May 22 2010, 01:21 PM)
Quote:
Car: 97 Taurus LX, 74k miles, power windows

My front passenger window has had issues over the last few years. It will just stop working. When I push the button on either the master or passenger switch, the lights dim and the relay clicks over, but there's no movement. The mechanic couldn't find the problem when my grandpa had it, so he just rolled the window up and left it.

A few months ago I took it apart and the motor was fine. as soon as i popped it out, i tested it from the switch in the car and it ran fine. I oiled the joints and pins, then pushed the window up and down by hand. I put it all together and it worked perfectly for about 4 months. A month ago, it stopped working in the down-position and i did the same process and it worked again. It happened a 3rd time yesterday, and again, its working, but all I did was push it up about 3 inches. I can't find the source of the problem.. anyone have the same issue or know of a fix? I haven't checked the wires, but I checked it after each step and it only worked after pulling the motor, moving the window, and reassembling. Not even after slamming the door shut a few times! .. I stopped doing that first after I thought something plastic cracked

Notes
- It's only gotten stuck when down, which was on warm or hot days for the two times the problem came when I had the car. The motor also felt pretty warm when i took the panels off
- as soon as I take the motor off, it runs off the switch.
- "To "fix" it, I do nothing but take the motor off, move the window, and put everything back together.[/b]

If the lights dim when your doing it, its getting power
If i were to speculate, the sliding mech is jamming somewhere and the motor does not have enough torque
to move it. I would take the door apart, and lube the sliding parts of the window and inspect for any damage
to any roller plastic wheels or other sliding parts

My passenger side jammed once. I unjammed the mech and its been fine since.

bob
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The first two times I took it apart, i lubed every moving part I could get to, then manually raised and lowered the window by hand. I'm not sure if I dropped the window all the way down... but I'm pretty sure I did at least once. I'll try that when it happens again if I don't find a more definitive fix sooner. Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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QUOTE (73torquer429 @ May 23 2010, 08:41 PM)
Quote:
The first two times I took it apart, i lubed every moving part I could get to, then manually raised and lowered the window by hand. I'm not sure if I dropped the window all the way down... but I'm pretty sure I did at least once. I'll try that when it happens again if I don't find a more definitive fix sooner. Thanks![/b]
Was the car ever wrecked? if so, maybe the door mech was bent slightly.

bob
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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no wrecks. Its had some minor crashes (none by me!) but that door has never been hit. I'm thinking about make a stop so it stops just before where its supposed to stop, while hopefully still stopping below the felt strip.. not sure how I'm gonna do that yet... just to see if that fixes the problem somehow
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This sounds exactly like the problem with both of the rear windows on my '95 GL (just bought used), which one would expect would get much less use than both front windows, both of which work flawlessly. I have both rear door panels removed. Whenever a window quits quits working, I loosen 2 of the 3 motor mount bolts (or completely remove the motor) to restore operation upon remounting. My best guess at this point is that after the window sits in the up or down position for awhile, something under tension shifts, which occasionally jams the window in the up/down position. Before surmising this, I even went so far as to disassemble both motors, clean the commutators and brushes, apply a light coat of "De-Oxit," and reassemble (very tricky to do, btw). Both motors are pristine inside -- absolutely no signs of wear, burning, or discoloration. Of course the only advice the "experts" seem to want to give is to spend $45-plus apiece on new motors. I very seriously believe that would be a waste of money. (And none of them even hinted at the possibility of first checking the driver's door lockout switch.) I've lubricated everything that I think needs it. (What lubricant(s) are best, btw? I've used white lithium grease on the nylon sliding parts and the motor's outer drive gear, and WD-40 on the geared plate's center shaft.) The problem MAY have diminished some now, but I'm leaving the panels off until I can do a more complete analysis.

Another observation: the motors stop in the up/down positions only by meeting resistance. I put straight pins through one motor's lead wires to monitor voltage. With the window in the up position, and the switch held in the up position, the voltage is about 6. If I continue holding the switch closed for about 5 seconds, the voltage rises suddenly to 12 volts, indicating the circuit has opened inside the motor. I had observed contacts inside the motors that evidently open up when heated, thus preventing serious damage to them. If I continue to hold the switch closed for a few more seconds, the internal contacts close after cooling, and the voltage drops to about 6 once more. This cycle continues to repeat itself as long as I hold the switch closed.

One more piece of advice: Unless you have to remove the regulator for some reason, DON'T. The motors (on my car, anyway) can be easily removed and replaced without removing the regulator. I found this out the hard way. Anyway, I used "Goop" cement and lock washers on stove bolts from the blind side of the regulator bracket (rather than epoxy, as someone else had suggested). That worked quite well.

I hope some of this information helps someone, and I welcome any further insights.
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slantsix View Post
This sounds exactly like the problem with both of the rear windows on my '95 GL (just bought used), which one would expect would get much less use than both front windows, both of which work flawlessly. I have both rear door panels removed. Whenever a window quits quits working, I loosen 2 of the 3 motor mount bolts (or completely remove the motor) to restore operation upon remounting. My best guess at this point is that after the window sits in the up or down position for awhile, something under tension shifts, which occasionally jams the window in the up/down position. Before surmising this, I even went so far as to disassemble both motors, clean the commutators and brushes, apply a light coat of "De-Oxit," and reassemble (very tricky to do, btw). Both motors are pristine inside -- absolutely no signs of wear, burning, or discoloration. Of course the only advice the "experts" seem to want to give is to spend $45-plus apiece on new motors. I very seriously believe that would be a waste of money. (And none of them even hinted at the possibility of first checking the driver's door lockout switch.) I've lubricated everything that I think needs it. (What lubricant(s) are best, btw? I've used white lithium grease on the nylon sliding parts and the motor's outer drive gear, and WD-40 on the geared plate's center shaft.) The problem MAY have diminished some now, but I'm leaving the panels off until I can do a more complete analysis.

Another observation: the motors stop in the up/down positions only by meeting resistance. I put straight pins through one motor's lead wires to monitor voltage. With the window in the up position, and the switch held in the up position, the voltage is about 6. If I continue holding the switch closed for about 5 seconds, the voltage rises suddenly to 12 volts, indicating the circuit has opened inside the motor. I had observed contacts inside the motors that evidently open up when heated, thus preventing serious damage to them. If I continue to hold the switch closed for a few more seconds, the internal contacts close after cooling, and the voltage drops to about 6 once more. This cycle continues to repeat itself as long as I hold the switch closed.

One more piece of advice: Unless you have to remove the regulator for some reason, DON'T. The motors (on my car, anyway) can be easily removed and replaced without removing the regulator. I found this out the hard way. Anyway, I used "Goop" cement and lock washers on stove bolts from the blind side of the regulator bracket (rather than epoxy, as someone else had suggested). That worked quite well.

I hope some of this information helps someone, and I welcome any further insights.
Some good stuff, thanks
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Purchased my 2000 FFV and the auto for the driver's window didn't work, but elsewise, the windows worked fine.

Last week, I got in, and noticed the driver's switch seemed stuck in the "up" position, and the window wouldn't roll down. All I get is a click, but the other windows continue to work fine. Is this a simple fix?
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My suggestion: Aim your headlights to where you can observe their brightness (engine off). With your key in the "accessory" position, push and hold the switch for the faulty window. If the headlights immediately get dim when you push the switch, and then return to normal brightness after a few seconds (without releasing the switch), then I'd say your problem is the same as mine (see my long explanation above). The remedy: remove the panel (etc.), remove the motor (mine has 3 hex-head mounting bolts, all accessible without removing anything else), and lubricate all of the sliding parts, etc. in the window mechanism (called the "regulator"). (I used white lithium grease; if anyone has a better suggestion, please let us know.) The window can be manually pulled up and down with the motor removed (it removes the motor's drive gear from the mechanism, thus freeing it up) by pulling on the top of the glass, so as to access all of the sliding parts. Some parts are a whitish-colored nylon (delrin?) -- if any of these are broken or badly worn, you'll likely have to remove the regulator to replace them. While you have the motor out, test to make sure it runs. If so, great. If not (be sure you have the key in the accessory or run position when you try), then the motor is shot. Personally, I don't think this is likely, since these motors are extremely durable, and are made to temporarily shut down under resistance, as I've indicated. Return the motor (an operable one) to its proper position (it may take a bit of wiggling to get it there) and replace the mounting bolts. If it works now, run it up and down a few times. If it jams again, remove the motor, remount it, and try again. (Sometimes I've freed it by removing just 2 of the 3 bolts and wiggling it.) It seems to take awhile for the lubrication to work its way into every place it needs to be. I've had my rear door panels off now for a couple months, and have had to unjam several times. Now it's been problem-free for about a month. One thing I've been doing is to tap the switch in reverse quickly to back the windows slightly off from their full up or down positions. This seems to help keep them from jamming in those positions. Hopefully though, this will soon be unnecessary, and I can remount the panels.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Post Is glass lube the transparent answer to the problem

As for white lithium, I would surmise that will make the problem worse, or even introduce new problems. White grease tends to become rancid, gunk up and become more of a cohesive than a lubricant - it then has real holding power. That's why I stopped using it on my garage door opener guide rail. (And, once on it's hard to get off.) Plus, I figure that tearing down to service a window regulator is not something a person would want to do routinely, if ever.

? I see a few comments related to Up-Down motor failure modes related to drag in the window regulation movers and pivots points. My sense is that window regulators are not regular (scheduled) service items and, as such, are most likely lubricated (or not) for life.

That said, there is another "lube" aspect that has not been addressed.

Shortly after acquiring a 2008-1/2 Taurus, I became concerned about window squeak as the driver window moved in its track - it was from "stickiness" between weather stripping and the glass, either at the bottom just where you would expect (you might see "strip prints" on the glass) but also along the sides. I brought this to the attention of my dealer service manager (along with notice a motor failure in conjunction with window drag squeak would be factory-caused responsibility), and inquired as to a factory specified window glide lubricant that would not harm the felt or rubber-like weather stripping components. Yes, they do use a special lube that Ford supplies, was the reply; but for owner-dyo service it is quite expensive - strangely, window lubing is not a dealer scheduled (or even unscheduled) maintenance item - go figure.

The glass-glide lube is called Motorcraft Mini-Vent Window Lube, 4 fl. oz., silicone based, $20-something per bottle, volatile and toxic if not used safely.

Since warm season is most associated with window drag (and probably motor failures as well if my experience is any indication)...probably best time to apply is start of summer...but also whenever window squeak is heard. Unfortunately for me, I did not get it applied in time to prevent (within perhaps as much as one minute's motor run time) the well-known, "passenger window motor up" failure mode.

The biggest problem? That you have to buy so much more than likely ever to be used or needed...but still much cheaper than even one motor purchase...even without installation labor.

If only there were not so few Fords on my block...I would have tried organizing a lube sharing, window glass lubing co-op!
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