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Old 12-30-2009, 02:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have a 2001 Ford Taurus SES 3.0 Vulcan. The problem I am having is the codes P305 and P306 which is a misfire on cylinders #5,6. I have recently changed the spark plugs, wires, fuel injectors,fuel filter and ignition coil but I am still having the same problem! At idle speed the CEL will start flashing maybe 50 times and then it stays on and this problem is really becoming a headache! If Anyone has had a similar problem and could HELP me I would Greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,

ANDY
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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well since the cylinders are right next to each other are you sure you did not get the plug wires switched or injector wiring? also another thing to test since it sounds like it is always misfiring is to smell the coolant if it smells like exhaust you might have a headgasket out between the two cylinders. or do a compression check if the headgasket is blown neither cylinder should have much compression.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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QUOTE (sable23 @ Dec 30 2009, 05:05 PM)
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well since the cylinders are right next to each other are you sure you did not get the plug wires switched or injector wiring? also another thing to test since it sounds like it is always misfiring is to smell the coolant if it smells like exhaust you might have a headgasket out between the two cylinders. or do a compression check if the headgasket is blown neither cylinder should have much compression.[/b]
well thats what started this whole problem. The headgasket blew because my power steering pump pulley broke when i was driving @ night. So I took it to a mechanic and he replaced the head gasket and told me that the compression was low but to drive it and it should build back up??? It runs ok but you can feel a little shaking at idle speed
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow... he told you that?? If he did the head gasket AND THEN the compression is still low, you have a warped head. From your description, the compression is low but the cylinder is not dead. It will ALWAYS misfire at idle. Basically, you are gonna need to get that head machined OR get a used head that's good.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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QUOTE (yiranhu @ Dec 30 2009, 06:46 PM)
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Wow... he told you that?? If he did the head gasket AND THEN the compression is still low, you have a warped head. From your description, the compression is low but the cylinder is not dead. It will ALWAYS misfire at idle. Basically, you are gonna need to get that head machined OR get a used head that's good.[/b]
So basically he got over on me! But yeah that sounds about right but I am going to take it to a certified mechanic and see what they say because in Texas you can not pass inspection with the check engine light on. It really sucks but I guess I will have to go with plan B. Thanks for your reply you have really been a great help!
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have the EXACT same problem mechanic telling me cyl 1 having 70 psi. I too head to change the head gasket. He also told me that if car runs over 20miles/hour, cyl 1 will kick in and at idle 'check engine' light flashed every time I stopped and then stays steady. Just to verify weather mechanic was telling the truth regarding cyl 1 kicks in after 20 miles/hour, I replaced it with a new spark plug. The spark plug remained new even driving car over 20 miles/hour for hours. Ignition coil, cable and plugs were all brad new. I had to go for second check of $40 and the 2nd guy told me I had 10psi in cyl1. I also saw needle was fluctuating. 2nd guy simply said cyl 1 is dead. Called back the first guy he disagreed with the 2nd guy. Now I do not know who to believe. Now I think that 1st guy did not do a good $1k job and 2nd guy recommended to change engine for $1.5k. Add to that, 1st guy now recommending that he could put an engine for 1.5 k or 3 years and 12k miles warranty. When I asked him what about 1 year & 12 k miles warranty of the first job, but now he says it was only meant for head gasket and not the engine.

I wish I can find an honest mechanic who can confirm true status on cyl1. I also think 2nd guy thought if the 1st guy can fetch $1k another $800 can be sucked too. Learning now what a 'wrap' is, 2nd guy did say that 1st guy simply painted the head cover and replaced head gasket without fixing the wrap.

Any recommendation will be helpful!! Any honest mechanic from NJ?
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You can test the compression on cylinder 1 yourself. Goto autozone, rent a compression kit. Take the spark plug out, then install the insert. Then screw the gauge into the insert. Disconnect fuel inertia switch in the trunk (so the car doesn't try to fire) and then turn the key to let the starter turn the engine over a few times. Then check the gauge. As long as engine turns over at least 4 times, there will be a compression stroke in there somewhere, where the compression reading is the highest (this is what you care about). The gauge will retain the highest reading. Do this for every cylinder. Compare the reading between 1 and others to see if the compression is really low.
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Old 01-03-2010, 02:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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QUOTE (JohnT @ Jan 2 2010, 08:04 PM)
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I have the EXACT same problem mechanic telling me cyl 1 having 70 psi. I too head to change the head gasket. He also told me that if car runs over 20miles/hour, cyl 1 will kick in and at idle 'check engine' light flashed every time I stopped and then stays steady. Just to verify weather mechanic was telling the truth regarding cyl 1 kicks in after 20 miles/hour, I replaced it with a new spark plug. The spark plug remained new even driving car over 20 miles/hour for hours. Ignition coil, cable and plugs were all brad new. I had to go for second check of $40 and the 2nd guy told me I had 10psi in cyl1. I also saw needle was fluctuating. 2nd guy simply said cyl 1 is dead. Called back the first guy he disagreed with the 2nd guy. Now I do not know who to believe. Now I think that 1st guy did not do a good $1k job and 2nd guy recommended to change engine for $1.5k. Add to that, 1st guy now recommending that he could put an engine for 1.5 k or 3 years and 12k miles warranty. When I asked him what about 1 year & 12 k miles warranty of the first job, but now he says it was only meant for head gasket and not the engine.

I wish I can find an honest mechanic who can confirm true status on cyl1. I also think 2nd guy thought if the 1st guy can fetch $1k another $800 can be sucked too. Learning now what a 'wrap' is, 2nd guy did say that 1st guy simply painted the head cover and replaced head gasket without fixing the wrap.

Any recommendation will be helpful!! Any honest mechanic from NJ?[/b]
My wife's car is a 98 with a Vulcan and I had a similar problem with a constant misfire that got worse over a 3 month period. You already got the best suggestion and that was to get your hands on a compression gauge. Should be in every tool kit along with a vacuum gauge. Get the reading for #1 and also #2. If #2 is low like #1 then you know there is a probable gasket problem. However, if only #1 is low and #2 has normal compression then you need to focus on that cylinder only. This does not require a new engine but it does require the valve cover to come off to look at the valves closely. In my wife's car the exhaust valve (more warped than bent when the head was off) was no longer sealing fully and the compression was 0. Not unknown for these engines to have trouble at this cylinder given it's cooling system problems. I installed a rebuilt cylinder head and the car has run great the last 14 months.
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My wife's car is a 98 with a Vulcan and I had a similar problem with a constant misfire that got worse over a 3 month period. You already got the best suggestion and that was to get your hands on a compression gauge. Should be in every tool kit along with a vacuum gauge. Get the reading for #1 and also #2. If #2 is low like #1 then you know there is a probable gasket problem. However, if only #1 is low and #2 has normal compression then you need to focus on that cylinder only. This does not require a new engine but it does require the valve cover to come off to look at the valves closely. In my wife's car the exhaust valve (more warped than bent when the head was off) was no longer sealing fully and the compression was 0. Not unknown for these engines to have trouble at this cylinder given it's cooling system problems. I installed a rebuilt cylinder head and the car has run great the last 14 months.
[/quote]


This also is my wife's car. I am planning to do a compression test next weekend. Since you mentioned on #1&2, now I recall the 1st guy mentioning that #1&2 had little less compression then others. He also said 'piston ring' got stuck and using thick additives will bring those back eventually. Then again many of his saying doesn't connect dots. Quest I have is:

1. If one takes head out, would it be possible to verify cylinder bore crack.
2. Could you pour oil to verify piston ring gap against the cylinder wall when head is out
3. Assuming cyl 1 has no compression due to piston ring gap, but if injectors works could spark plug be wet
4. Could cyl 1 fuel injector be clogged beyond reparable (I checked resistance and it is good)
5. Could Car's PC malfunction causing cyl 1 having no fire at all.
6. Could CPS (cam or crank) malfunction contribute 1 cyl being dead.

More I dig into it, it seems 1st guy did a botched job and he agreed to pay half of the money back, provided I sign a paper disclaiming any future claim.

As for 2nd guy now I remember his father was clicking pressure gauge release button while his son was cranking engine during compression test. But now I leaned that you do not release the pressure till & least 4 cranks are completed. They cranked many times as I saw pressure was fluctuating up and down (of course because he was releasing pressure)and at end it showed 0.

Man O man!!! I was almost going with 2nd guy for an engine replacement.
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Old 01-03-2010, 03:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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QUOTE
Quote:
1. If one takes head out, would it be possible to verify cylinder bore crack.
2. Could you pour oil to verify piston ring gap against the cylinder wall when head is out
3. Assuming cyl 1 has no compression due to piston ring gap, but if injectors works could spark plug be wet
4. Could cyl 1 fuel injector be clogged beyond reparable (I checked resistance and it is good)
5. Could Car's PC malfunction causing cyl 1 having no fire at all.
6. Could CPS (cam or crank) malfunction contribute 1 cyl being dead.[/b]
First, 4,5 and 6 are irrelevant since they have no bearing on compression. The engine turns, so the piston cycles and so it either has compression or doesn't.

Second, if the injector is fine then yes the plug could be wet and if you had a code reader that could read in real time and download to a computer you would see issues with the O2 sensors reading unburned fuel downstream.

Third, yes you can squirt a little oil into the cylinder and if the rings are the issue you should get a bump in the compression. This is the part where I wonder what the first mechanic was even thinking. He had the cylinder head off and could see everything unless blind. Where does he come up with the idea that a ring is stuck. Did you not run this car for years. Did you run this car with incredibly old and dirty oil. The other causes are improper installation. I doubt it, right? So if the compression doesn't change then the valves come next.

Last, a cylinder bore crack? Well, I know the Vulcan is not a high performance, high compression engine operating at it's limits so that eliminates blowing the engine from those reasons easily. I can't even see overheating as the cause as weaker components would give way first like the cylinder head gasket or the cylinder head. That is another thing to consider because if you take the head off to look at the valves you can also see if there is a small crack in the head and it would likely be near the exhaust valve.
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