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Old 06-17-2009, 08:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Greetings,

I have a 164,000 mile 1992 w/3.8 and I am trying to replace the water pump.
After reviewing both a Haynes and Chilton manual I thought I was
well prepared. My issues:

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get the water pump
out. All the bolts are undone, the pump is separated from the block,
but there are two very long bolts going through the pump into the
block that I can't pull out. When I pull the bolts back, they hit the inner
metal fender well and yet are still in the block!
What do I have to do?

Next is the fact that I snapped the heads off of two bolts. Once I get the
pump out, there will be about a quarter inch or so of bolt sticking out of the
block, what is the best way to get these stubborn bastards out?

Finally, since I pulled all this crap off and got to the water pump, is there
anything else I should do while I am in there? Thanks for reading this
long-winded post and any help you can give me...

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Old 06-17-2009, 04:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To get those long bolts out, you need to unbolt the front engine mount from the cradle and raise the engine with a jack. The procedure in the factory shop manual tells you how to do this.

Try to get the broken bolts with vise grips, otherwise you may have to use heat then vise grips.
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info! Neither my Chilton or Haynes mentions jacking up the engine...Oh well..
Anything I should be aware of before I start? It looks like the engine will have to come up about
two, maybe three inches on the passenger side for the bolts to clear the inner fender. Can I jack
up the engine without disconnecting anything but the engine mounts? Again, none of this
is covered in either of my manuals...TIA
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Old 06-20-2009, 06:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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When I changed my 3.8L WP last fall, I chose to cut the thread lead in, off (about 1/4 inch) on those long studs that had nuts on them, that remain in the engine block & it'll give more room to remove the pump, without having to jack the engine up. I used my Dremel with a Harbor Freight Diamond wheel, that cut through that hardened steel like a hot knife through butter.

You may find that the head of one bolt, on the right hand side at about the 3 oclock position, as you look at the pump, will need to be passed under the lines that run along the top of the frame rail. Just raise & hold the lnes up a little, with a wooden wedge, to obtain clearance for the bolt head, to get the bolt in, or out.

I had the top bolt jam up on remaoval & had to grind that puppy out with a diamond bit from Harbor Freight, that fit my Dremel. took about 4 hours to do it & not mess up the aluminum casting's threads. That puppy didn't turn loose until I got the last little bit ground out.

I center punched the bolt & drilled through it with a 1/8 dia diamond drill bit, but it didn't turn loose with the heat & vibration of grinding. So I had to go back in & use the diamond bit as a grinding burr, to slowly open the drill through hole, just untill I could see the imprent of the crown of the aluminum castings threads, but not get into, or damage them.

Then pick the bolts remaining threads out.
Man that was fun & that danged bolt also just laughed at all of my strongest words of persuasion, humilation it was!!!! lol

Ford uses hardened steel in those bolts, so it'll be slow going if you have to grind them out & the casting they're in is aluminum, so be careful.

That danged bolt just laughed at all the heat & thread penetrants I used, including Liquid Wrench, PB blaster, Napatha, Fuel Oil, Marvel Oil, WD-40, ect, ect!!!! lol

The Dealer had replaced the water pump back in 97 & I believe the Ford Tech cross threaded that top bolt, as all of the others came right out, no problem. Thank goodness it was the top one, as thats the easiest to get too!!!!

Hope you don't have the removal problems I did, with your broken WP bolt.

Be sure to use some anti-sieze on the bolts that thread into a blind hole & rtv on the threads on any you remove that thread into the water jacket!!!!

I bought all new Ford nuts & bolts for the replacement.

Hope you don't have to replace the WP metal extention tube connection for the lower radiator hose, as it'll be about $120 from the Dealer!!!!

On top of the old old WP, be sure to remove & save the small dia black pipe hose fitting that the engine/heater bypass hose connects too, so it can be used on the new pump.

I opted for a new ASC Signature Series WP from Advance, it has a lifetime warranty, was well machined & fit just like the OEM one, for WAY less.
I did opt for a Felpro WP gasket though, as I didn't like the way the one that came with the new WP fit at the impeller.

A whole bunch more 3.8L WP thoughts for consideration. Let us know how it goes.
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Old 06-20-2009, 06:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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OK, thanks for the great information and detailed post....I am completely and totally psych'd out now...I've been soaking
the two bolts I snapped off with PB Blaster...will keep my fingers crossed...
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Old 06-20-2009, 07:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yah I soaked mine for days, even built a little dam around it with duct seal, to keep the threads wet with penetrant, then heated the casting & even both ends of the bolt, trying to draw the penetrant in.

Turned out that the threads in the center of the casting were damaged, so there was no way mine was going to screw out.

After I got the old bolt ground & it's threads picked out of the casting, I used a brand new bolt, to SLOWLY chase the threads & ended up with enough beginning & ending threds in that top thread boss, to be able to torque the bolt to spec & it hasn't leaked.

I pretested/did a dry run, on the WP installation first, to make sure I had enough clearance & could get it on without problems.

Then I did cheat a little though, as I elected to butter on a Thin layer of Permatex/Loctite Ultra Blue RTV onto the engine block side of the WP gasket, then install the gasket, butter on another Thin layer of RTV on the WP side of the gasket before installing the WP.
Then installed the WP bolts & that is when I had problems getting the last bolt in at about the 3 oclock position & had to raise the lines to do so.

Come to think of it, it I also trimmed off the thread lead in of the WP BOLTS too, as that made them a little shorter & allowed me to get that last bolt in easier.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ok, I really screwed up now...

I soaked the broken bolts in PB Blaster and heated up with a propane torch and
promptly snapped one off. Flush with the timing cover. Wait, it gets better!

I went to the local NAPA auto parts store and they told me I needed an EZ Out.
Well, I drilled the center of the broken bolt and screwed in the EZ out. I then
promptly snapped that sucker off! I have the water pump out, but obviously
cannot put the new one in. I tried drilling the EZ Out, ah, out, but my drill won't
even dent it...Now what? Do I have to take the whole timing cover off?

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Old 07-18-2009, 08:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well I used a Diamond drill bit from Harbor Freight to drill out the hardened WP bolts & seeing as how diamond is harder than steel, it can cut/grind into the Easy Out, or WP bolt, but it'll likely be slow going, just say calm & focused & you'll likely get it out.

Because of space limitations I opted to use my Dremel with the flex drive option & Diamond bits to fit it's hand piece.

Some folks have opted to weld a bolt to the broken one, counting on the heat from the welding to loosen things up enough that the broken bolt will back out before the welded on bolt snapped at the weld.

In any case ginding the broken off bolt is always an option & the one I chose rather than the Easy Out method, as I have heard horror stories about them breaking off, like yours did.

My stuck bolt laughed at all of the penetrants I applied, including PB Blaster, didn't have any Kroil, now I wish I had taken the time to come by it locally, or had ordered it.

Anyway I feel your pain & frustration!!!!
Let us know how it goes.
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well LD_rider how is it going, ever manage to get that stuck W/P bolt with the broken off easy-out in it, removed????
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You probably dont want to hear this but................. I finished with my '93 3.8 wp a couple months ago and in order to get to and replace the long studs going through I had to remove the timeing cover. That and I needed to anyway as when I replaced the wp i also broke loose the timing cover gasket seal so that too needed replacing.once the whole assy is out you can put them back together on the bench and go ahead and place the studs through the pump and cover then drop it in to place. the studs Igot from ford had an allen head recesses into them so that i could tighten them up without using vise grips. I would recommend doing that in stead of jacking up the engine as its much easier. Just get a good stout pair of grips to get the studs out once you break the timing cover loose.

Hope that helps....
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