I'm starting to replace the leaking front to rear brake lines.
So, hope to give some other people in the future some helpful hints. And, of course, being I've never done this before, it would be nice to get some helpful hints myself.
So, I've cut the near the fittings and pulled the line out.
one of the things i did was to put some tape on the ends so I could tell which line went where. My lines had been replaced at least once before. and where the lines go up from under the door to behind the gas tank. it is hard to tell if the lines cross or not. They shouldn't. But they shouldn't touch either. and they were close enough together that the rust/scale was together. So just encase they did cross, I did have them marked.
But, at the bend where the lines had rusted together, is where the lines were leaking. And, when I went to pull the lines out, they broke right there into two pieces. The lines broke about in half. So, I had four lines. I knew which side the fronts went and which side the back halves went. but, didn't know which fronts went with which back. But, for the last replacement there were two unions on each brake line. turned out one back half has two unions and one front half has zero unions. that tells me which front half goes with which back half.
So, if you plan on using the your old lines as a template for bending new lines. it might be a good idea to mark the lines in a few places. That way if they break into pieces, you know which pieces go together.
So, now I have a question. how much force does it take to remove the fittings from the proportioning block. The fittings are 13 mm as many threads have said. I thought I was twisting them somewhat hard. Didn't want to over do it and round the edges. decided to test a 3/8 fitting on one of the unions from a removed brake line. All I did was round the corners off using 6" line wrenches. I hit the 13 mm fittings with some PB blaster and will try again tomorrow.
I used a little heat to try to help them break free, just a little. Also you can cut the tubing at the fitting and use a socket to loosen them. Definitely use a flare nut wrench if you don't use a socket.
Consider using Nickel Copper brake lines, they last forever.
Only use six points so you don't round them off. Well the block has o rings in it so if you do use heat, don't heat the block. Heat a fitting at a time and I would heat for 10 to 15 seconds. You should be able to get new fittings but a new block is impossible and is a junkyard item.
There might be a place for this old school plan. See pic, this is common way to get tight bleeders loose. Hit the socket with a hammer and the force is on the hex and it will break the rusted threads loose. With brake line fittings, you would need a different socket likely. Idea is the same.
Old school, "whatever works".
If a hex is rusted, sometimes a fractional socket fits better than the correct metric. Or the reverse. Only 6 point for rusty parts. And good quality ones.
Been doing some testing on the unions that were on the old brake lines.
one that looked like it had no rust on it. put PB blaster on it a couple of days and it came off rather easily.
on a rusty one, did PB blaster a couple of days. Not coming off. Used the propane torch for about 30 seconds. the fitting came out of the union. But, it took force and it felt like I was rounding it off (yeah, I know what that feels like). But, it came out.
Put some more pb blaster on the fittings on the car. Hopefully tomorrow they will be off. probably will need to use a little heat also.
Could someone verify for me that the brake line with the blue tape on it is the outside (furthest from the car centerline) brake line under the doors. the brake line with the black (above the line with blue tape) on it goes to the driver's side rear wheel.
thanks
I believe the blue line is on the outside and the black line goes to driver side brake.
After seeing your valve fitting condition I feel a better about mine.
The rear most brake input line in the valve block is the closest to the outside of the car and the output line above that input line goes to the driver side rear brake. That is important so you have cross brakes that work when one of the master cylinder circuits fail.
so the outside at the door becomes the bottom line at the proportioning block
and the inside line becomes the top line at the proportioning block
The lines almost crossover. So, now I understand how they look like they are crossing over.
Not much progress on the car. But, now I have a better understanding of how to remove the fittings on the car without causing undue damage. So, I have more confidence in getting the job done.
Thanks for all the assistance. It has been real helpful.
Attached are more pics of the valve block at different angles to maybe help you out. If you asked the question a few days ago, I had the tires off to switch to snow tires on that car and could have gotten line shots above the wheel wells.
My other 2001, I replaced the lines into the block but on this one I installed unions that you see in the picture. It was based on the condition of the lines at the block.
Now we are progressing. Have all the old fittings out.
used propane torch for 20-30 seconds along with pb blaster and they are out.
I found I was better able to grip the proportioning block and wrench the fittings with my head towards the driver's side wheel and feet towards the passenger's side.
I used a 1/2 ratchet wrench and six sided socket. It took moderate force. More than I thought it would being I was worried about rounding the fittings off.
all in all, taking the fitting out were easier than I thought they would be. Just do like people have recommended. Some pb blaster and a little heat from a propane touch. And, they come off.
The fittings are off, but the brake line was rusted to the fitting. Not a problem for me as I was replacing the brake line and had cut the line off. But, things might not be so easy at a master cylinder where you need the fitting to turn but not the brake line.
So, out with the old. now, in with the new.
get some new fittings and make some new brake lines.
I'm thinking it isn't as much as I used to take the rusty one off. I know you cant use a torque wrench for an exact tightness. But, some where between the lines not leaking and stripping the fitting is kind a vague.
Should I loosen then tighten the brake bleeders before putting any brake fluid in?
I'm thinking that the lines are open and not much brake fluid in the lines. So, if I need to heat the bleeders to get them to open, it is less likely that there will be a pressure build up in the lines.
How tight of a radius can I use when bending the brake lines?
I'm using nickel copper brake lines. But, I'm not wanting to make too tight of a bend.
some of my own answers. these apply to the nickel copper lines that i'm using.
Bends should be smooth and have a radius of at least 3 x tube O.D.
So, my brake line is 3/16". but is that the OD or the ID?
the 3/16" is the OD. 3x that is 9/16" radius. Double that for the diameter, 1 1/8. So, bending around 1 1/8" socket is about as tight as you can go.
DO NOT over tighten the nut. From hand tight the degree of tightening should generally be between 1 and 1 ½ turns.
and, a tip I didn't know.
A small quantity of brake fluid on the bearing surfaces of the flare will ensure that it and the nut can be tightened without twisting the tube.
Of course, what is a "small quantity" of brake fluid? you'd think a lot would just drip off. And, where are the "bearing surfaces"? I would guess this is the whole flare portion of the line. where it contacts what the fitting is being screwed into and also where it contacts the inside of the fitting.
And, can I start flaring the end of the brake line coil that I have? Or, should I not use the very end of the coil, because it might have manufacturing/shipping imperfections?
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