Is it an anti-theft "PATS" Malfunction? - Taurus Car Club of America : Ford Taurus Forum
Register Home Forums Active Topics Topic Finder Photos Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto Loans
TaurusClub.com is the premier Ford Taurus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-14-2011, 08:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 28699
Join Date: May 2010
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 17
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
tom234 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Question Is it an anti-theft "PATS" Malfunction?

Hello all- This is quite long but please bear with me. If you have a Taurus, you too might someday encounter this situation. I had a very disconcerting experience in my 2000 SE wagon (24V DOHC, auto trans) last weekend, and have a series of corresponding Passive Anti Theft System (PATS) questions. But first the description: I was driving along the interstate at 75 MPH and the car simply shut down. Not a cough and shutter, missing, on-off again or smoking episode, but simply shut down. So I put it in neutral and rolled to a stop on the shoulder. (This was in Phila. I-95, and 75 MPH is only moderate, the passing cars where zooming by.) Then, naturally, after observing I was in a safe place and the car wasn’t overheated, I tried to start it… Nothing, notta. Dash lights and all on as usual, but nothing. Not a half crank like a dead battery, not a click, nothing. Silent 100%. To make a longer story a bit shorter, 3 hours later and after being towed to Midas, it cranks over quickly and starts right up. No hint of what had just happened. So I’ve been naturally quite concerned, mostly about it happening again. It was checked there at Midas and nothing was found, no codes either. Then a few days later (yesterday), I took it to Ford. Looked at (what specifically I don’t know) but nothing found. I was kind of frowned at to suggest the PATS system. They said it was “checked”. But what other feature of the car will both turn it off and then prevent it from cranking, with no other obvious problems like a ceased or overheated engine? Like I said, fuel system (as one mechanic thought) and others you’d normally think of right away, were checked. And why would the fuel pump AND the starter go out 100%, simultaneously, only to recover 100%, 3 hours later, and give me no problems all week since? So I hunted the internet and found a PATS description after putting in the right Google search terms. Seems like PATS shuts the car off when it recognizes a theft, and likewise won’t let it crank. HEY! Sounds like what happened to me! So the questions are- 1) Does anyone know if this is one of those hokey things that might happen because it’s happened (or something like it) to them before? 2) Might this happen if you’re driving in an area with hokey radio signals that trip your system? 3) Do PATS Fault Codes show up in the same manner as other Fault Codes or do they have to be retrieved from somewhere else? And 4) , if I replace my car with another good used low mileage Taurus (there are still a few around), did they make them without this PATS system or do all 2000+ Taurus’s have it? Complicated does not equal better. Thanks very much for reading and any answer is appreciated. I don’t want to be unexpectedly stuck this summer!
tom234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-14-2011, 11:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
Devoted Member
 
00greenlx's Avatar
 
Member Number: 28509
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeview / Nuevo, CA
Chapter: West Coast
Drives: 2000 Flex-Fuel
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1,049
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 12
00greenlx has a spectacular aura about
Default

The PATS system will not just shut the vehicle off when your driving, it's job is to prevent the starting of the vehicle and that's it. I would suggest a bad Ignition switch (Intermitent) It's quite a dangerous situation your in and glad you weren't hurt!
__________________

Model: 2000 SE + SVG Pkg. without alloys
Color: Tropic Green Clearcoat Metallic.
Engine: 3.0L FFV Vulcan (2v)
Transmission: AX4S / AXOD
Mods: Mach Audio RCU and Sail Tweeters, Upgraded OEM CD player, Infinity Reference 6x8's in all 4 corners,
Centennial Headlight Mod, Green LED Gauges, Painted Gauge bezel and K&N Custom intake system.
00greenlx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 11:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 28699
Join Date: May 2010
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 17
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
tom234 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Yes, but if PATS hadn't malfunctioned, and the car started, was running down the road, and THEN malfunctioned, couldn't it shut down the engine? Then still malfunctioning, prevent it from starting? If it's the ignition then I should be able to knock it around, pull my key in and out, etc., until it malfunctions. I'm sure the 2 shops have tried all that (I would hope) and more. My reading about PATS on other websites, includes that it communicates back and forth with key chip and actually cuts the engine off innitially in a split second, if it's not the right key. Then, depending on the system, also prevents the starter from functioning after that. Thanks for your reply. Anyone else, any ideas?
tom234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 03:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
Devoted Member
 
00greenlx's Avatar
 
Member Number: 28509
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeview / Nuevo, CA
Chapter: West Coast
Drives: 2000 Flex-Fuel
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1,049
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 12
00greenlx has a spectacular aura about
Default

Only the first couple of seconds after the cars ignition is turned on the PATS "Ring" scans for a Key with the proper chip. After that the system is NOT active, Never assume that the techs have checked the obvious problems. Sometimes the obvious escapes the best. PLEASE REVIEW THIS PDF.
__________________

Model: 2000 SE + SVG Pkg. without alloys
Color: Tropic Green Clearcoat Metallic.
Engine: 3.0L FFV Vulcan (2v)
Transmission: AX4S / AXOD
Mods: Mach Audio RCU and Sail Tweeters, Upgraded OEM CD player, Infinity Reference 6x8's in all 4 corners,
Centennial Headlight Mod, Green LED Gauges, Painted Gauge bezel and K&N Custom intake system.
00greenlx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 05:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
Banned
 
Member Number: 24077
Join Date: Nov 2009
Drives: '97 LX
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 323
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
jay144 is on a distinguished road
Default

Tom, listen to what 00greenlx is telling you....the ignition switch.
jay144 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 07:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
Technical Advisor
 
Member Number: 1771
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Blythewood, SC 29016
Chapter: Southeast
Drives: 00 SEL Sedan DOHC
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 16,917
Trader Score: 7 reviews
Rep Power: 93
Bull Geek has a reputation beyond reputeBull Geek has a reputation beyond reputeBull Geek has a reputation beyond reputeBull Geek has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Bull Geek Send a message via MSN to Bull Geek
Default

I have heard otherwise that the PATS system is known to engage when the vehicle is in motion. People have posted on here about having that happen before. Now whether the PATS system is to actually blame for this, I can't say.
__________________
--Nick

-True Blue MC 2003 Lincoln Town Car | V8 SOHC/4R70W | 55K
-Silver Frost MC 2000 Ford Taurus SEL | V6 DOHC/AX4N | 198K
--Wood paneled 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Colony Park wagon | V8 OHV/AOD | 180K ish?
--Ugly Colored 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Colony Park wagon | V8 OHV/AOD | 303K miles!
Former...
'87 Taurus 3.0 GL sedan, '87 Taurus 3.0 GL Wagon, '97 Taurus SHO 3.4 V8 sedan
Bull Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 09:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 28699
Join Date: May 2010
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 17
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
tom234 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Question

OK, thanks everyone. I too have read descriptions (not here) of Tauruses and/or other Fords, shutting down while driving and then having problems turning over and/or starting. While these stories questioned PATS, non of them offered any answers with a complete story. I guess the question needs more detail: Just how does PATS work? I’ve read at least two beginnings- The key communicates 1st with the car, and vice-versa. Since there is nothing I can see with the key that would turn communication off or on when used, I would have to guess the car communicates with the key first, and the key reciprocates. The next step would be all-important. Has the car already begun starting? Does the car need a radio signal code to activate the starter & turn over, to activate the ignition spark, or activate the fuel pump, or some combination of all of these? Or is it a “de-activation”? If so, if the PATS malfunctions while running (e.i. starts from the beginning after perceiving a new start, perhaps from a rougue radio frequency and doesn’t perceive a response from the key due to ?, can it shut the car down via any of the above? How does PATS prevent the car from running? From what I read, a non-functioning starter is often part of it and after the fact too. Thoughts? The other questions I had still stand too. Responses very appreciated.
tom234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 10:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
Devoted Member
 
00greenlx's Avatar
 
Member Number: 28509
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeview / Nuevo, CA
Chapter: West Coast
Drives: 2000 Flex-Fuel
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1,049
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 12
00greenlx has a spectacular aura about
Default

Did you look at the PDF that was attached ? That's from Ford regarding the PATS SYSTEM. This is clearly not a PATS issue, if it was then when you were trying to start it the PATS Light would be rapidly flashing. Is that happening ? PATS does not have the ability after 1 second to shut the car down if there is a problem. So if there is a problem with PATS before the 1 second is up the car will not start, but after 1 second it will start and stay running. I'll proudly eat my hat if it is a PATS issue.
__________________

Model: 2000 SE + SVG Pkg. without alloys
Color: Tropic Green Clearcoat Metallic.
Engine: 3.0L FFV Vulcan (2v)
Transmission: AX4S / AXOD
Mods: Mach Audio RCU and Sail Tweeters, Upgraded OEM CD player, Infinity Reference 6x8's in all 4 corners,
Centennial Headlight Mod, Green LED Gauges, Painted Gauge bezel and K&N Custom intake system.
00greenlx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 01:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Member Number: 28699
Join Date: May 2010
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 17
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 0
tom234 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Question

OK, thanks much 00GreenLX! I read the PDF file. According to Ford, (in writing), "if the car has started IT IS NOT a PATS issue". Now all I have to do is trust what it says (a human problem). The theft indicator is not flashing irregularly now. But no codeas about anything were ever stored. So, so much for codes.
Let me ask this- If it happens again (Stops while cruising, No Start, then normal start 3 hours later), with no code, what is my next SANE move? Ignition has been suggested. Any suggestions here? How much of the car is to be replaced, if I want to replace the "ignition"?
The type of PATS system in my car, according to the PDF doc, is "Starter Interrupt Present". I don't know what that means, but I guess if PATS wanted to prevent the car from running, it would not let the starter engage. If that's the whole system, well then, I guess my car didn't stop because of PATS. If anyone can address my new IGNITION concerns, then, I'd appreciate that much. 00GreenLX, thanks a bunch
tom234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 01:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
Devoted Member
 
00greenlx's Avatar
 
Member Number: 28509
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeview / Nuevo, CA
Chapter: West Coast
Drives: 2000 Flex-Fuel
Visit: My Garage
Posts: 1,049
Trader Score: 0 reviews
Rep Power: 12
00greenlx has a spectacular aura about
Default

Maybe a Malfunctioning Fuel-cutoff switch ? I digress though...

This issue won't even let you crank the car after it dies, that's got to be the ignition switch, I'll keep thinking about it....
__________________

Model: 2000 SE + SVG Pkg. without alloys
Color: Tropic Green Clearcoat Metallic.
Engine: 3.0L FFV Vulcan (2v)
Transmission: AX4S / AXOD
Mods: Mach Audio RCU and Sail Tweeters, Upgraded OEM CD player, Infinity Reference 6x8's in all 4 corners,
Centennial Headlight Mod, Green LED Gauges, Painted Gauge bezel and K&N Custom intake system.
00greenlx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:49 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2